Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Controlling unwanted plants On Northern Pond, Chara and the big freeze

I finally entered the digital age... Kodak 712IS neat panoramic feature used on the first one...


The pond is in the process of being drained to Rotenone off the LMB and GSF in prep for next fall's planting of SMB, YP, and if needed Walleye.

I've been battling Chara since it filled two years ago. Treated with Cutrine granular early (60 degree water), and one month later. Water clarity is a problem, can usually see down about 5'.
The normal water level is up to the green tote (toy box). Between the Cutrine and racking, the beach area stays pretty clean.

Viewing toward the west. Most of this area is between 4'-6' when full. Behind the dog about 25' is the spring area where a constant supply of fertile water flows in.



This view to the East is normally about 7'-8' deep, but even there the chara grows well.

In the pre-black slime stages... It looks pretty harmless, but when the water is up this stuff gets two feet high.


I know the stuff spreads by fragmentation and spores. What I am wondering is would a good freeze kill both? I could leave the pond down at about this level all winter. Some sections (especially the West area) may freeze solid except for the spring flow area.

Are the spores sensitive to the Cutrine, or do they have to be in a growing stage. On that same line, is it best to treat immediately after any mechanical removal? I have filled the skiff till it was ready to sink many times with the stuff, but it seems to bounce right back.

The other rational behind leaving it low, is I could treat the stuff aggressively in spring as the water is coming up.
Words of wisdom and even nutty comments are welcome.
Thanks!

Jeff,

A friend that manages ponds (and comes here from time to time when he has time) told me the herbicide of choice with Chara is Nautique. He says it works much better than Cutrine Plus even though it is not listed for Chara. It can be used in spot treatments too.

I'm with you on the Chara. It grows prolifically in my ponds too but I've learned to live with it somewhat. It does hold a lot of aquatic invertebrates and helps clear the water by filtering otu nutrients but it can do too good of a job and not leave enough nutrients in the food chain. And if you eliminate it look for phytoplankton to increase and/ or filamentous algae. It's a catch 22.

As far as freezing controling it or eliminating it... Fogetaboutit! It comes back in my ponds if not treated even after annual draining and drying the bottom out. It may not come back with the Nautique though. I haven't tried it yet.

Hi Cecil,
I was hoping you might reply since I know you fight with it too.

I saw on of your other posts about the Nautique. I searched the label. Though more concentrated, it appeared to apply to the same ppm. Maybe I mis-read it or am missing some other secret ingredient that makes it more effective.
I have only used the granular cutrine, but even when it is applied early it seems to have a minimal effect especially where there is growth remaining from last year. It seems to brown the tops, but it roars right back. I still think I will leave the water down over winter, and rake out as much of the dead and drying as possible. Then next year when the level just covers the whole bottom, I will use the liquid cutrine.

Are you using the "One Flush" bacterial treatment? Thought I saw a post that you had no muck on the bottom of a treated pond. I talked to Joan at Pro-Lab 954.384.4446 yesterday re purchasing in bulk. They don't sell it that way (they buy it prepackaged), but if you are interested, I was quoted a price of $5.30/box of 3 packets. If I bought 72, she was going to throw in 5 free boxes... Any further thoughts on the bacteria supplement to digest the dead algea and consume nutrients that might otherwise fuel it's growth?
Thanks for your expertise!

Does WI allow grass carp?

Jeff,

I was told by the friend that the Natique had more concentrated copper or something like that. He too was talking about how the cutrine plus doesn't seem to work well on the chara around here especially if you have a layer of it or wait to long. Is you water hard? Hard water may reduce it's effectiveness also.

I haven't used bacteria in a few years. Just too expensive. However the pond manager friend I mentioned swears by it and applies it to several customer ponds. Not sure what he is using but it is in liquid form.

Hi Bill and Cecil,
Wisconsin does not allow grass carp.
As far as the hard water goes, you can almost walk on it year round.
Surrounded by limestone, water comes in from on top of the limestone. I know about the reduced effectiveness of the Cutrine in hard water, but there doesn't seem to be any data on how to compensate. I would assume the PPM shouldn't go above published, but the time between applications may need to decrease if the hardness causes it to dissipate quicker. I still think the clarity is my problem #1. Right now I can see down about 12'. Maybe a hippo would eat Chara; in any event it definitely would help stir up the clay on the bottom.

Jeff,

Did you mean to say 12 inches or is that 12 feet like it appears to be?

Sorry to hear your DNR is as narrow minded on grass carp as my neighbor to the north Michigan. I fail to see the logic in promoting herbicices over biological controls if the grass carp are sterile. Go figure.

Hi Cecil,
It's 12 feet or better. Called the DNR and talked with the head of the Aquatic Invasive species department. Grass carp are not allowed in the state even if they have had their tubes tied.

Just spent about and hour on the phone talking microbes with a biologist. She figures a 25lb pail of their product (for $388) would last the season. Doesn't recommend doing any treatment until spring and water temps of about 40 degrees or better. She does field work too on lakes/ponds and treatment plants. Recommended adding more bog plants to aid in nutrient takeup. I am thinking a couple of floating bog islands so in winter I can remove the dead stuff easily instead of it sitting on the bottom and adding to the problem. Thinking PVC pontoons that I can flood with water in the fall (after picking the plant matter off, and then sink it in the shallows (3' or so) Pump it up in spring...