Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Bill Cody: Walleye and Perch Pond feasible?

Cecil - Dave W. adds good additional info in his Dec 6 post below.
PREREQUSITES: Ready and dependable access to young walleye fingerling and or juveniles (5"-8").
Lots of variables with this one that are still being worked out. As with other stocking combinations things are not simple due complexness of the numerous interacting factors involved. Numerous things to consider with this fishery. Walleyes have not been very succesful in ponds in the past (journal articles) which is reflected in most everything one reads about them in ponds or small lakes.
Keep in mind that this fishery will be primarily a table food fishery not a very good aggressive, hard fighting, leaping predator based fishery. A disadvantage; I'm not sure, depends??
Y. perch and walleye are not as "fisherman friendly" as bass & bgill. Better combination (for several reasons) would probably be SMB or hy.stp.bass and perch; see below. I think minnows/shiners are also key to these fisheries; esp if rapid perch growth is desired. For minnow/shiner long term & brood stock survival I'm convinced that weed beds (refugia) of some sort are essential. I have preferences for submerged species. Sport fish populations are also enhanced by the weed beds.

Your ? #1. I currently think a walleye and perch combination is feasable in ponds in the northern states where cool water fish thrive. However, for it to be successful it is a fishery that requires high maintenance; in that the pondmeister will have to closely monitor the populations (predator and prey) and make adjustments when necessary. It is also important to keep in mind that in a pond or sm lake for good growth of yellow perch the system will need an abundant minnow/shinner food base. This could be very difficult to achieve with walleyes and another predator species in the mix; esp if the walleyes are very abundant! This is why I prefer to use perch in my pond that are 'trained on fish pellets', which minimizes this problem. Success of the fishery will depend on the knowledge & skill of the pondmeister; luck may also help in the success.
2?. Perch may, but will not likely become overabundant IF walleye numbers are correct; which is where population monitoring is very important. Strong year classes of perch should be monitored carefully, thinning with traps may be necessary if walleye stocks are on the low side. Trapping would also be a good way to quickly & temporarily thin a heavy perch hatch so they do not overeat the food resources. Strong year class of perch could be adjusted by stocking a few more YOY walleyes (5"-8") in the fall. Whereas low numbers of perch young and subadults suggests walleye should be thinned. Condition factors for walleye will also indicate if walleye removal is necessary. Currently I am suggesting harvest of all? walleye greater than 16"-18". This keeps the predators at the smaller size range which limits how big of perch they are eating. My goal is for me, not the walleye, to harvest the larger perch. Bob at RV Fin Farm tells me that the walleye in the OH DNR ponds always topped out at 3-4 lbs (19"-21"). He doesn't think they will get much bigger than that in small ponds with themselves as the only common(20-30/ac) & dominant predators. Probably right; esp w/ densities of 20+/ac. These large fish by themselves converts to 70 predator lbs /acre (3.5 lbsx20). I have seen ponds with high numbers of walleye / ac that grow slowly and keep perch recruitment to minimum after 9-10 yrs, yet the pond appears to have ample minnows and shiners that sustain their numbers.
? #3. Many of the yellow perch with adequate food could outgrow the forage size (9"-12")of medium sized walleye (16-20"). This is where harvest comes into the picture. One has to thin the perch adults (sometimes fingerlings) based on the goals of the fishery. We have had some problems with oldest/largest y. perch in a few aerated ponds dying during the hottest summer months (surf. water 90 degF). We are assuming genetic brood stock, excessive fast growth or temperature are primarily responsible. We are still researching this problem. One stocking plan could be use walleye as a random bonus fish with low #/ac (6-12/ac)and the pondmeister would be primarily responsible for controlling the perch numbers thru trapping & a fish pole.
4. "Balance" will be purely artificial since the walleye spawn usually will not survive at least reliably each year. Walleye recruitment (depending) will be at best very 'spotty' and prob. nonexistant. Wall. spawning is often no problem, but few ponds have proper conditions for the hatching of walleye eggs. Walleyes are NOT nesting, parental fish like bass and sunfishes. Restocking will be necessary (depending on proper balance & # harvested). Newly hatched and young walleye are real slender and easily eaten my many larger fish including perch. Once source I have says 1 in 10,000 walleye eggs make it to one yr old. NOTE - I prefer to not have the walleye eggs hatch in a pond. A successful hatch of walleye eggs would really complicate my management goals and my estimates of how many predators are present.
?#5. Stocking rate of y. perch & wall. will depend on fertility and fed vs not fed fish; similar to bgill. One will grow more lbs/ac of each if they are fed. I've read where walleye may not be as good at food conversion as say LMB. This may have an impact on numbers/acre. Generally I do not stock perch and walleye at densities those for bass and bgill since walleye and y.perch are both primarily fish eaters.
6. Walleyes may or may not need to be stocked each year. I'm currently leaning toward restocking predators every two yrs. This will allow me to better monitor growth. Number of walleye stocked will depend on perch YOY recruitment and # harvested. Try to maintain a proper "balance" which eludes many pondmeisters. Larger walleye (6"-8") are the preferred stocking size. Survival will be better. Larger walleye (& esp LMB bass) will also readily eat newly stocked smaller walleye, depending on the stocked size, amount of refugia and number & size of predators. Generally the larger the size of stocked fish the better the chance for survival

NOTE FYI: We are also using Hy stripped bass in combination with y. perch. Both readily eat pellets. This may be a much easier to maintain & manage fishery. Another easier combination is SMB and y. perch which are ideally suited together & occur naturally in many northern situations. I still maintain LMB were "created" or evolved to primarily live with sunfish - bgill. Thus I try to keep y. perch out of LMB waters.

ADDITIONAL NOTES:
A. Sunfish are not good forage to produce optimal growth of walleyes; assuming this is impt. Walleye & n. pike have big mouths but narrow throats and have difficulty swallowing larger sunfish as compared to LMB who have wide throats and easily handle/swallow wide bodied prey. Narrow throated fish prefer and grow faster with a predominance of larger sized, elongated forage. Larger walleye do better w/ slender prey and are forced to inefficiently eat the smaller wider bodied sunfish. Walleye, bass and bgill &/or y. perch and even pike seem to sometimes work in larger lakes that have a high diversity of habitats/niches. I don't think these numerous species combinations or diversity works very well at all in ponds.
B. Pottsy is on the right track with his stocking combination except I disagree with the bgill for reasons stated above in item A. Yellow perch would have been a much better suited panfish with walleye as primary predators. Abundance of mixed minnows and or shiners are very beneficial or maybe necessary for overall growth of perch and walleye. Perch can very quickly over eat their food source without a minnow based forage. Minnows/shiners also quickly get young walleye up to a size where they are efficient predators of the YOY and subadult perch. Shiners (golden 5-7") also grow to large sizes beyond the prey size for perch & sm walleye but not larger walleye (18"-20"). Another reason why I try to remove larger walleye. Presence of larger brood shiners helps insure a supply of annual small forage. (Generally: Brood stock shiners prefer open water away from bottom hugging walleye. Perch become inactive at dusk when walleye become active). We have seen instances where walleye seem to have slow growth up to 14" with only y. perch as forage. Not sure why this is happening; maybe a fluke; but probably due to a lack of minnow forage. HOWEVER slow walleye growth can be very good because the smaller walleyes are eating small perch which is the main group that needs to be thinned so remining perch have enough food for good growth.
C. I'm not sure where Pottsy got his info about walleye growing better on fish forage as compared to pellets. I partially believe this and most of the aquaculture data I've read indicate mixed results. I have never read anything in the literature to verify his statement. I'm not sure that Pottsy's info source performed a valid unbiased test, which would be pretty hard to do. Walleye are very hard to get onto pellets and I know of no source in the USA for pellet trained walleye that are available to the public. Ohio DNR raised sm. wall. for resocking and maintained some large 3-4 lb walleyes all on pellets until they abandoned the project.
D. I also think Pottsy would have had a better & easier to manage fishery, if he would have used SMB instead of LMB in his pond. I think he will have trouble getting good survival of supplimentally stocked 6"-8" walleye with LBM in the pond. Cecil, you know the cross-sectional shape of walleye less than 13"; basically a cigar and they will be PRIME food for a fairly long time for the 15-18" bass. Mouth/gape of SMB & hy.Stp. bass of 15-18" is a lot smaller compared to LMB of similar size. Plus I don't think the SMB are as "fish eating- aggressive" (esp if crayfish are common) as the LMB. Maybe wrong; just a feeling from experience of raising both and seeing what each does to a forage base.
I also think the walleye in Pottsy's pond will at times eat as many small bass as perch due to body shape of both types; abundance of each prey & cover will also be impt. here. His recruitment of LMB will be curtailed due to numbers of walleye and their predation of young bass. This may be okay depending on his goals.
E. Since Pottsy supplied the source of his info (thanks Pottsy), I will provide my opinions. Leonard's Hatchery looks like a good operation. I think they over emphasized their promo as a selling point. Look at the size range of YOY in the dip net for stocking. Compare that to the photo-example for pellet vs fish raised walleye. Definate bias between the two pictures.

As with most fishes, early growth can be quite variable depending on a lot of circumstances.
Walleye have been raised on pellets in Iowa to abt. 8" by fall of first yr. Others have reported growth from 5"-8" on pellets although 5"-6" seems to be the norm. I got some saugeyes from RV.Fin Farm that were raised on minnows to 7" by 1st fall. He often has 5-7" walleye in the fall that were raised on minnows. I've also often seen 3-4" walleye by 1st fall raised on pellets or minnows; crowding & adequate food seems to be the biggest limiting factors. Pellet raising walleye can be very tricky and results very variable depending mostly on culture conditions. The technology and genetics (ploidy & single sex) of walleye culture are still being developed.

F. I think if one relies on 16"-20" walleyes to thin bgill populations they will see excessive numbers of 4-5" bgills over time.

G. In smaller water bodies, I would not mix walleye in with LMB and expect to have a thriving walleye fishery. There is a major and direct PREDATOR BEHAVIOR conflict here. SMB would be a better bass for a walleye fishery; but here, you are again putting the pressure of two predator types on your forage base and one of them is dependably reproducing. This complicates the management of the fishery. The more sport fish species that are introduced into a pond the harder it becomes to manage so all species are successful. This is less true when talking about forage species; diversity of "appropriate" forage speices is usually beneficial for predator based habitats.

I hope this has provided some insight into walleyes for ponds. More needs to be researched, experimented and learned. BCody