Pond Boss Forums INTRO Common Pond Q&A (archives) Stocking & Managing HSB, Wipers & Other Notes

I have been reading alot on the boards and have been a Pond boss reader for 2 1/2 years now and have finally got around to stocking my pond. I have stocked a 1 1/4 acre pond with 10lbs of FHM on April 10. I followed them up with 600 CNB 4"-5" and 150 6"-8" CC on May 16th. I am wanting to stock wipers and plan on feeding and taking and then restocking when needed just to keep everything in balance. When would you guys suggest stocking wipers and where should I look for the best price on said fish for pickup or deliver in north central OK? I will be putting a feeder on the pond within the next few weeks.

skennedy, I was hoping some of the pros would jump in on this subject, but they are in their busiest season of the year, so I'll share my experience with you.

There is a ton of information in the archives on "wipers" (I prefer the term Hybrid Stiped Bass):
READER NOTE: SOME OF THE LINKS BUY GEORGE DO NOT WORK BUT THERE ARE LOTS OF OTHER LINKS IN LATER POSTS THAT PROVIDE VERY GOOD INFORMATION.

http://forums.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=20&t=003579
HYBRID STRIPED BASS
http://forums.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000199

HSB Pond
http://forums.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000344

George's photos!
http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000308

HSB study results
http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000450

Winter feeding HSBTopic: Winter feeding HSB Topic: Winter feeding HSB
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=003602
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000180
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000180

HSB Stress & Deaths in Cold Water.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=448898#Post448898


HSB in Hot Summer Weather
HSB do get very stressed, sometimes to the point of death during the angler-fish fight. The warmer the water the more they become stressed. It is not wise to fish for HSB when water is in the 80F+ range unless you are willing to tolerate some HSB mortality. George1 has a special proceedure to rejuvenate or revive heavily stressed HSB before releasing them back into the pond so they rarely die after an exhausting mid-summer battle with an angler. If George or another member knows the title of the thread that explains his reviving method using oxygen please post it below. Also see link later in this thread.

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000341

Warm water and HSB extracted from the link above:

1. At what surface water temp. do you consider lethal when angling HSB? (81 degrees?)
There is no set lethal temperature. Remember that when water is warmer it loses some of it's ability to hold dissolved oxygen. HSB survive without angling in temperatures well into the 80's, but when you combine this with the stress of angling, lower oxygen, and long fights, these fish can and DO die.

2. At what water temp. would you expect to loose say 50 %.
50% is a high number. I'd say long fight at 81-85 degrees might see a mortality rate this high.

3. At what temp. do you consider maximum for near 100% survival? Using proper angling techniques (i.e. Quick catch and proper release, proper hooks, etc.)
To assure survival, I don't angle for my HSB at water temperatures above 75.

4. As you mention, larger fish are much more vulnerable to "fight to the death" syndrome. Are there standards you use for say 3#, 4# fish, etc.?
When HSB reach about 20 inches, the "death curve" starts to steepen.

5. You can increase oxygen available to fatigued muscle tissue by moving fish through the water (FORWARD) with it's mouth held open, if you don't have pure O2 available. It definitely helps. Keep in mind that a fish with massive lactic acid buildup essentially goes into a cramp. He can't recover if his mouth is cramped shut. I've seen this where you try to release a warm water captured hybrid and he gets a curve in his back and his mouth is locked shut. You put him in the water and he just lays there. He's suffering from oxygen deprivation just as much as if he's sitting on the bank. Maybe even more so. The fish on the bank is just drying out. The one in the water is suffocating.

6. HSB, and other fish as well, probably have significantly higher mortality if some of their handling occurs on a boat deck, or on the ground. Removing the slime layer is known to produced
some delayed mortality in addition to the immediate mortality being discussed above.

HSB Lifespan Info
http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000509;p=1

HSB Pond Record
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=003596

HSB/Striped Bass Analogy
http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=003651

My experience with HSB in a "put and take fishery" has been very successful.
As you read, or have read in the archives, the problem with stocking them in an existing pond is predation from adult LMB.

With a new pond and your stocking plan, you do not have this problem.
This presents an excellent opportunity to avoid the predation issue, and acquire stocker HSB at economical prices when this years crop becomes available.

I am not familiar with suppliers in your area but I'm sure someone on the forum will advise you.

I would stock the smallest and least expensive HSB available, at the rate of 100/acre, and supplement each fall with numbers you intend to harvest.
In this way you create a yearly "ladder" for harvest and sport fishing.
There is no finer pond fish than HSB for sport and table fare.

A feeding program with high protein pellets is an optimum program.
A good aeration system is a plus for the goals you have outlined, but I have had success in a 0.2 acre 'grow-out pond' used for transferring HSB to our 2 acre pond, having survived two record breaking, low water drought ridden summers.

Good luck and keep us posted

In my book, George is a pro.

I'd read every word of the information above. Wipers are almost too much fun! You should really enjoy the experience. I think my favorite thing about wipers is that you can pick and choose which fish you harvest, and the remaining fish, with the best growth potential, can be left in the pond to grow to trophy size.

Good luck.

Guys I will be moving this thread to the Archives. Thanks George.

Hybrid Striped Bass Biology.

Here is a link to some handy nice Excel calculators for relative weights for LMB, SMB, HSB, WE(walleye), BG, BCP (blk crappie), YP (yellow perch). Plus standard weights for LMB, SMB, HSB, BG, Crappie, and CC.
http://texasprolakemanagement.com/blog/relative-weight-calculators

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=103995&fpart=1

HSB are fertile and in special conditions (see link info) will spawn and the eggs can hatch and result in offspring as described in the references below by the Stacy of Stubby Steve's fish food lures.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=418105#Post418105

Dave Willis explanation of functional sterility at
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=1394&Number=15285#Post15285

Cody note: I know that healthy HSB will develop eggs as seen by Cecil Baird and the HSB in my pond. I have a pond near me that has several small HSB that have not been stocked in with the original larger HSB. Apparently from the information in the links below it takes special conditions of moving water and water quality for the eggs to survive and hatch. The people that own and manage Stubby Steve baits have HSB spawning and recruiting hybrids in their pond which is not supposed to happen. I think I have the name of the pond owners correct as posted on the Pond Boss forum.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=177718&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=14608&Number=177647#Post177647

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=26165&Number=335069#Post335069

Oxygen Resuscitation Method for HSB and Other Stressed Fish Before Releasing
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=22925


Wiper vs Hybrid stripped bass:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=326524#Post326524

Pellet feeding HSB Check the gape size of your HSB and see if the pellet is more than 30% of gape size. I use to cut the 1" LMB pellets in half to hand feed 12 in HSB. I would hand feed a few uncut pellets and see the results. If needed cut them in half.


For ponds where there are pellet eating hybrid stiped bass and/or smallmouth bass with bluegills, sometimes the smallest bluegills will become abundant due to lack of predation. See this technique used by Shawn Banks Pres. Midwest Lake Management to reduce numbers of small bluegills in his pond.

ANOTHER EXMPLE
Some incorrectly say pellet eating HSB do not eat very many fish.
This IS from Hoosier Pond Pros:
That's not true about the HSB not eating many fish when HSB are fed pellets. . If it was, then why can I catch pellet trained (and pellet fed) HSB in my pond on Rapalas and other fish shaped artificial lures? Fish ARE lazy, but they also are opportunistic. Don't confuse that with fish being hook shy. HSB, LMB, CC, even BG and other panfish species can get hook shy.

Here are more posts, information pieces and pictures of hybrid striped bass from northern and southern states.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=331808#Post331808

And a thread about good ideas for catching those HSB even the hook shy ones.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=331948#Post331948

Idea of possible growth in one year after stocking 12".
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=341520#Post341520

Bluegillerkiller's HSB thread and some examples by others of HSB's fighting power and precautions during summer angling for them.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?
ubb=showflat&Number=343516#Post343516

Discussion of can HSB as only predator control bluegill?
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=359103#Post359103

Questions about using HSB in new IL pond:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=363471#Post363471

Example of HSB Growth Rates from various areas
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=369265#Post369265

Record size HSB and life spans.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=412842#Post412842

Speculation about minimum DO required by HSB compared to LMB and trout. HSB summer - winter kill examples.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=369674#Post369674

Option of Using HSB in a New Pond with LM Bass.
One could try a stocking ratio of LMB to HSB as a 1:1 ratio. One bass for each HSB. Try this and it should work well. The other option could be 2LMB to every 1 HSB, 2:1. Stocking of HSB with LMB can be a widely flexable ratio. Once the LMB have their first spawn,,, they will soon outnumber the HSB.

When I had HSB in my pond with LMB-BG-YP, I preferred the HSB to LMB as a sport fish. HSB also grew bigger and faster than LMB, they fought harder than LMB, and they ate pellets better and more aggressively than LMB.

We need to remember the LMB will start reproducing after the 1st or 2nd year they are stocked. They will soon outnumber the HSB, even if more HSB than LMB were initially stocked.

Generally it is thought that if the pond receives pellet feeding the LMB will eat more BG than the HSB, although this to my knowledge has not been proven nor tested. HSB eating pellets means these fish fill up on pellets and thus eat fewer fish than a similar sized LMB.

With a HSB-LMB combo one could MANAGE for more or less predation of the smaller BG based on how many of HSB or LMB are harvested. Removing more HSB should result in fewer BG surviving i.e. one gets heavier LMB predation due to more LMB are present. Removing more LMB should result in more BG surviving since fewer LMB are present to eat BG.

Here is link to an informative thread about growing HSB, their genetic make-up, and potential top end size.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=397981#Post397981

Hybrid striped bass are not sterile, although they rarely have the right conditions for a successful hatch of the eggs in a pond. A few PBoss members have seen some limited success of reproducing HSB.See link:
http://www.arkansasstripers.com/hybrid-striped-bass-spawning-habits.htm

More Spawning Info
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=440558#Post440558

Duplication of record size and life span from above.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=412842#Post412842

Member questions about adding HSB.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=457389#Post457389

Member examples of pond raised HSB
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=459189#Post459189

HSB stocked with RES - A concept & discussion
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=503145#Post503145

Here is a very good thread that has lots of good information about growing hybrid striped bass. It includes on page 2 Bruce Condello's interesting story about overstocking his HSB pond and the resulting total fish kill.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=11180&page=1

Ladder Stocking Discussion
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=503063#Post503063

Ladder stocking discussion, harvest with estimates of sizes to be stocked and survival rates.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=565347#Post565347


WHEN USING LADDER STOCKING,,, HERE IS HELPFUL INFORMATION ABOUT FIN CLIPPING AND TAGGING TO MONITOR GROWTH AND WHEN THEY WERE STOCKED.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=544843#Post544843

When using HSB as predator and golden shiner as forage food it appears the ladder stocking of HSB is important because member's reports indicate the too few predators allow too many GSH to survive to the point that in small ponds the adult shiners can limit the recruitment of predators such as SMB, LMB and forage species such as BG, RES, YP and HBG. Note that I have seen about 12 HSB in a one acre pond eliminate minnow and golden shiner populations once the HSB grow to 18" long.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=552981&page=1.

However this phenomenon of too many forage species or predators hindering the survival of sport fish is a common occurrence. Example - too many bluegill will prevent recruitment of largemouth bass. High numbers of green sunfish will significantly reduce recruitment of other sport fish and minnow species.

Here are some Pros and Cons of using just HSB in a pond if that is your goals for your pond - maybe just a pond for swimming and some occassional angling fun and excitement.
I will start with a different type of pond stocking option that is now being used in NW Ohio. For a mainly swimming pond,,,, stock only hybrid striped bass (HSB). If you want them to become large toward trophy sizes feed them pellets and or provide lots of forage foods. Know their full diet preferences for the best results.
Mouth gape threead for HSB and some other predator type fish.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=372481#Post372481

A. HSB do not bother swimmers,
B. HSB do not reproduce to maybe cause over population problems,
C. They do not need to have any forage fish to grow to 5 lbs+ providing they receive an appropriate amount of pelleted food for healthy body growth, and not too many are crowded per acre. Seek good reliable experienced advice.
D. HSB could thrive with just redear sunfish (RES) as a forage fish. Learn all the Pros and Cons of RES.
E. HSB are good as dinner guests.
F.. When on the other end of a fish pole, HSB are very, very strong opponents. IMO inch per inch the hardest fighting freshwaer fish bar none.
G. HSB do not need lots of habitat. IMO they do not need any habitat except good water quality - aka Bob Lusk's "happy water". They are primarily an open water living fish.
I. HSB swim or hang out in groups that allows one to assess the numbers and sizes that are present.
J. HSB will live okay in warm water ponds as far south as Texas although they grow best with higher TDS (total dissolved solids).
K. HSB can be caught on both artificial baits although frequent angling can make them become harder to catch i.e. hook smart. No fish likes to be jerked by the jaw.
L. Best survival rate of stockers is the 6"-8" lengths. survival of stockers can be variable depending on how well they are handled before stocked.
M. Escessive feeding of pellets can cause more plant growth, reduced water clarity and lower water quality conditions.
N.. If you have too many harvest some and when you want more add some.
O.HSB Life span can be up to 15-20 years providing they are handed properly by the educated and forewarned anglers during mid- summer angling sessons.
P. Life span is shorter when grown in warmer more Southern ponds.
Q Since HSB do not reproduce ior have very limited reproduction in special water types it is much easier to change the direction of the fishery community.
R. HSB blend in well when a mixed fish community.
S. Once they are in the pond the fishery can later be changed with minimal problems compared to LMB; providing the new fish are appropriate sizes as food items or as for developing a panfish or different predator population. Removing HSB involves angling or waiting until the old ones die naurally.
T. HSB have a smaller mouth size than LMB or SMB so they are not as a good predator of large sizes of BG and wide bodied fishes
U. Being predatory HSB will eat any new small fish that are introduced from unwanted sources.
V. If one wants different size classes or groupings of the HSB new ones can be periodically added to the pond.
W Correct stocking density depends on one's GOALS. Seek several good stocking opinions from experienced well meaning pond owners for this topic.
X. Generally the more numbers per acre that you stock in the pond the fewer the chances they will grow to be trophy sizes.
Y. If you do not want to feed HSB pellets they will survive eating invertebrates and foods that will fit into their mouth opning size. Just eating natural pond grown foods the HSB will likely only grow to be 10" to maybe 14" depending in HSB density and amount of available foods.
Z. HSB are not the best predator to use with reproducing sunfish(BG) although I have seen them thrive in a pond with hybrid BG and and or yellow perch.
AA. They should grow well with golden shiners (GSH) as a forage fish.
BB. Here is another one for more information from PBoss Forum members about HSB from the Common Pond Q&A Archives for in-depth learning about HSB:
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92629#Post92629