Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations New reproduction pond

Hi.

I'm planning on building a new reproduction pond this spring. It's very evident that my bluegill spawn just great in a lined pond, but I'd like to have a pond that's much more manageable in size so I can seine the fish easier. I need to have better control of the weeds, silt, size and water level than I do in my current lined ponds where I had to seam two liners together (big mistake) so I'm wondering if anybody has any experience or ideas on how to secure the edges of the liner so that the pond looks attractive.

I've already priced a piece of Firestone EPDM 45 mil liner that's 25' X 75'.

I'd have to follow the following parameters.

1. Uniform maximum depth of 5 feet.

2. Dependable bottom drain.

3. Aeration system

4. NO SEAMS

5. Steep banks

6. Maybe most importantly I would need to design the pond so that it fits on a slight slope. I'm estimating the overall dimensions to be about 12 X 50 feet with an average depth of 4 feet. I think this yields about 18,000 gallons.

My wife is adamant that the pond not look like a lined pond. I would be willing to bring in some giant flat stones or something like that to create a walkable bank.

One big deal is that when we have a rain event that no silt flows into the pond, so it would have to have some design to allow water flowing down the gentle hill to run around the pond.

I would put some vats of sand/gravel in one end to facilitate the spawning process.

I would also intend on using a traditional aeration system instead of circulation.

I have already acquired floating islands to help with nutrient uptake.

I can actually see this as a nice kids' fishing pond during the fall and summer.

If someone wants to really go wild on the design you could PM me and I'd be willing to pay or trade for the design work.

I'm a little worried about the project, because even though my existing lined ponds grow fish like crazy, they look pretty junky as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks,

Bruce

Bruce, once again, you are a few years ahead of me on a project. I will be watching closely to see how this works out.

BTW, my elbow is beginning to heal up. So I should be up within 2 wks to get the net and begin Project Carp-Out.

I'd love to help you with the aesthetics, Bruce, but I have no taste. Someone like Ryan Freeze, OTOH, could take your current lined ponds and get them in "Better Homes and Gardens."

It sounds like you want this pond to have some of the aspects of the kind of shallow, easily drainable ponds often used for aquaculture of stuff like prawns. Maybe those types of ponds hold some answers for you???

Bottom drain in a lined pond may be the hardest part.

So maybe a setup like our indoor tanks would work for draining the pond?? A PVC line plumbed to the bottom, then elbowing out of the pond with an exit below the lowest level? I think that would work.

NEDOC. Get healed up!!

Dig the pond and set aside the dirt . Have the above water portion of pond bank slope up away from the pond water edge by about 1 ft in elevation over about 5 ft of excess bank. Line it in a normal fashion with the liner edges extended out on to the up slope above water dirt bank. Use the set aside dirt to cover the liner edges on the up slope bank to a depth of about 2 feet above the pond. Cover the dirt with sod. Add a few rocks if needed at the pond edge /dirt/liner boundary. No run in , no liner to be seen and away you go. Use a portable 2in pvc siphon (noted above) or trash pump when needed. Forget the bottom drain.

Sounds great, but I had a nightmare tucking in the liner on the other ponds. It sticks out of the water at an upslope and provides a very slippery and unsightly edge. Does anybody have a photo on how to hide the liner edge, but still have it do it's job?

Post a photo of the unsightly edge to help those of us who aren't lucky enough to have lined ponds envision what's going on.

Can you lay something like landscape cloth over the edge of the liner (half over the liner and half beyond it), then cover them both with dirt & rocks? It might help prevent the dirt cover from sliding off the liner and exposing it. If you don't want runoff entering this pond, you could basically build a levee around it to cover the liner.

If you have any pieces of liner left over from the other ponds, use them to conduct covered edge experiments with.

Bruce, take a look at photos of Rads pond. Don't remember where I saw them.

Hey, I guess we know who wears the pants in your family.

Rad's pond has a liner?

Cecil? What's the number on gallons per minute per pound of fish? You had some fancy schmancy equation.

Is there some kind of a prefab fiberglass that could be buried in the ground with a 600 sf footprint?

Hey aeration experts!!! How would one most economically aerate 18,000 gallons? We would need to vary the depth of the diffuser would we not, depending on the time of year? Absolute max depth would be 5-6 feet. I'd want the water to be really, really clear.

why fight it and bring the liner all the way out of the pond? doze in a perimeter ledge 6-inches or so under highwater mark, about the width of a bobcat bucket, bring the liner up on that and cover with landscape fabric and gravel and large rock. you'd have to give yerself a couple places to get in and out, so use large flat rocks there. you could also inhibit sedimentation run-in by slightly berming the perimeter above this structure, hydroseed banks immediately after construction.

OK, remember that I'm a little slow...

I'm not quite visualizing. I wish I could do one of those diagrams on the computer.

At a previous house, a previous owner built a liner pond (swamp!!) that was about 25 x 50 with an average depth of about 3 feet. Talk about looking like a lined pond! It was worse than ugly, plus it leaked. He used swimming pool liner over newspaper.

I drained it twice using two separate 50-foot pieces of flexible 1-1/2-inch sump pump hose. It was actually quite easy.

[img]http://s7ondemand1.scene7.com/is/servlet/izoom/DoItYourself/u539926?wid=200&hei=200&fmt=jpeg&qlt=75,0&op_sharpen=1&resMode=trilin&op_usm=0.0,0.0,0,0&iccEmbed=0[/img]

I'd tie the lower end of the hose into a tree so that it was higher than the banks of the pond. I then poured a few buckets of water into the pond end of the hose. Once it held a fair amount of water, I'd throw the pond end of the hose into the pond. Then I'd cut down the lower end from the tree. It would slowly start to siphon, but would quickly gain volume. As I recall, using two hoses, took a little over a week to drain.

Here is a picture of a red shouldered hawk watching as the life was literally being drained from his meal source. One of the drain hoses runs into the water right next to the post he is sitting on. The other end of the hose goes into the woods, and down the edge of the mountain.



This pond was so ugly, that the second time I drained it, we bulldozed out as much liner as possible, and buried the rest of it.

Ken

I don't know whether Rad has a liner but he does have some beautiful rock edges like I think you are talking about.

Bruce,

Take a look at this site.
Fiberglass Pools

The Ocean Breeze is 18 x 40, with a 6-foot depth.

I go by a place on the way to work that sells similar pools, and some of them are pretty big. The deliver them on a low-boy trailers.

Good luck,
Ken

Bruce,

It was about 12 lbs. per gpm but that was for trout and flowing water.

As far as draining the pond if you have power you can drain it by using a regular 20 gpm sump pump from the hardware store. You can also get it started and then unplug it and as long as you have the outgoing hose on a downslope it will continue to run. Not as fast but it will continue. It would only take 15 hours to drain an 18,000 gallon pond with a 20 gpm sump pump. Actually a little more as the head increases but you'd probably have it drained in 24 hours.

I drain my 100,000 gpm ponds with sump pumps and even got a 50 gpm sump pump this year to do it a little faster.

Personally I think one diffuser would be enough in a pond this size. That's all I do and I have no problems. I wouldn't see the need for a commercial suface aerator if your densities aren't too high.

As far as the liner could it be your problem is you are trying to fix the liner in postion before the pond completely fills? If you let the liner slide down and compress by the weight of the water as it fills shouldn't that tighten it up good? Or do you get water coming up under your liner like I do in my well pump lined tank? This is only a problem for me in the winter when my well water is shut off.

My ponds although not lined have birms build up around them to keep most watershed water out which keeps them pretty clear.

I would strongly strongly suggest using the digout soil to even up the banks if you are digging into a slope. Steep slopes are a pain in the ### to keep the erosion down and get grass growing.

Bruce - I am not a computer artist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...(still looks like my 4 year old did this in crayon - but I think you'll get my point).



I am assuming you need the liner all the way to the high water mark...with this method, your fill dirt would allow seepage, but only as far as the buried liner. You can cut the liner off at the exact level needed and sod/seed overtop or use landscaping rocks etc.

The slope down the backside of the berm/levee surrounding the pound should all run to a low point and then cut a ditch out the backside to take the water down hill.

I think with this simple scheme you could create the shape you need and then landscape to make Momma happy (cause if Momma ain't happy, nobody's happy).

Hope this helps....again, sorry for the artwork quality.

Cecil, I had water under the liner because of the horrible stupid-butt seam that I couldn't seal properly. All of my visions of a hard bottom that I could walk on evaporated the moment the pond started to fill.

Jeff F, now I'm starting to get it a little bit. The "fill dirt" could be substituted with gravel and rocks, right? That must be what DIED was talking about.

If you use gravel or rocks in place of the fill dirt in my crayola diagram you'd have nearly total seepage that would mean you�d be standing on water (albeit under some rocks) at the pond edge. Plus the rocks would be more likely to slip down and show the liner�packed fill dirt would be best I think.

I would use clay if you got it just to keep the pond edge as firm and natural as possible...and then sod or hydro-seed on top to get the best erosion control (even with the berm/levee setup you�ll get some dirt washing down in a hard rain and sounds like suspended clay would mess up your plans�I think if you pack and sod/seed well this should not be an issue...if no clay, then just the best packing dirt you can find.

I'm assuming you want the fish bedding in the middle to avoid birds?? and that's why the steep banks?? If so, that's where I'd put the pea gravel and try to create a natural earthen barrier at the waters edge for walking and aesthetics.

Oh yeah that's right! I forgot about that!