Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Large fish.. How many can a pond support?

My pond is about a � acre and about 7 ft deep.

Last year I talked to a fisheries biologist about the size of the bass in my pond. On average they are in the 12-13" range. They don't seem to get bigger.

The pond has quiet a few LARGE channel cats. My wife caught one over 10 lbs.

The biologist says that the pond can support only so many big fish. He recommended removing the 12-13" bass that I've been catching. It seems to me that maybe I should remove the large catfish instead.

What do you guys think?

The pond can only support so many fish. 10 pound CC are probably predator enough to be considered moderately effective competition to LMB. In taking up part of the pond's total fish biomass, they are direct competition.

If you want the most big bass you can possibly get in your 1/4 acre, remove all the big CC you can. Unless there are very few small bass in the pond now, you will have to thin the bass as well. Be aware that fairly few large bass can be supported in that small a pond.

The "usual" number that I hear is about 100 lbs of predators per acre in a well maintained pond.

With aeration, and if they are feed trained, and you feed them, you can have up 2500 lbs. of bass per acre. I've done it. However, I would play it safe and stay under that as we are not talking about commerical aquaculture here we are talking a recreational pond. There is also a rule of thumb to follow when feeding fish. Stay under 30 lbs. of feed per acre per day.

My pond is one-half acre. Two years ago we had at least a dozen really large catfish (10-15 lbs), and probably that many medium size (5-10 lbs) catfish. My bass were stunted and very skinny. My bluegill were reasonable.

Over the past year, we got all the catfish out of the pond, and two of four really large grass carp. Both types ate a lot of food when we fed, plus I can only imagine that the big cats were eating a lot of other forage that should have fed the bass. My pond was muddy most of the time, so I did't get much of a bloom at any time.

By this spring, even my 9-11 inch bass began to fatten up. In early May, we took out 11 bass between 9-10 inches because there were so many of that size in the pond. Right now I have a real abundance of 12-13 inch bass that resemble 1959 Nash Ramblers.

We consistently catch 9-11 inch male bluegill, and 8-9 inch female bluegill. Since about mid-April, we've caught 126 bluegill over 8-inches, keeping 48. Of the 126, 32 were 10 inches or bigger.

I don't think any of this would have happened if we would have left the big cats in the pond.

Good fisn'
Ken

Cecil, I'm almost afraid to sound like a dumb bass, but that's a typo, right?

Jack,

Depending on your goals, I'd recommend removing both. For the reasons already mentioned, removing the large CCs should create more biomass for other species and release some of your larger forage from predation (Do you have BG/RES/CNBG, etc.?). Since you said you have quite a few of the big ones, I think it would be wise to at least take some of them out, unless large CC are your management goal.

How many 12-13" bass do you catch? Do you catch very many that are either smaller or larger? To release some of your smaller forage from predation and to allow the remaining bass to grow, removing some of the 12-13"ers could be beneficial as well.

Removing both would allow your forage to rebound slightly, which would in turn help all remaining predator fish. I've noticed a cycle in the effects of harvesting. I've been trying to do exactly what I advised here and have noticed the upswing in BG and RES populations in that pond. But now, the bass and remaining CCs are growing, and the BG and RES populations are taking a hit again. Eventually it will be time for more harvesting. It's an interesting dynamic.

No it isn't. It's a recommendation in the aquaculture industry. Some catfish farms actually feed up to 60 lbs. of feed per day. Of course we all feed much less than that but it's the real McCoy.

Cecil those numbers sound incredible! What does playing it safe under 2500lbs per acre mean? My pond is now three years old and only filled up for the first time this March. I have stocked with bass now three different times with three different types of bass. Should I continue to stock or will they spawn enough to fill up the new pond?

Wo! I didn't say to overstock your pond! I'm saying you could grow out up to 2500 lbs. of bass per acre if you feed them and you have proper aeration.

There is a big difference in planting a predator prey combination and not feeding the pellets and stocking a sole predator species and feeding them.

Cecil's definitely not just throwing out numbers. He's right on the money. Both of my recreational ponds are well over 1,000 lbs. per acre, but I'm using aquaculture principles as well. It's actually not THAT expensive when compared with the cost of the dam, and the house, and the Morton building...etc,.....etc..........

I've almost gone two whole years without killing my fish, too.


And like Cecil, I'm not recommending that anybody else do this. What I would recommend however, is for people to learn some aquaculture principles, because then you can get a more reasonable amount of fish well supported with oxygen and good water quality.

Cecil I love to stock fish almost more than catching them. I have stocked 600 hybrid stipers, 200 adult northern bass, 200 adult florida bass and two thousand catfish. I have threadfin shad, native bluegill, coppernose bluegill, shellcrackers and tilapia as a forage base. I have two feeders that go off twice a day and I am about to add a third. Each feeder feeds about fifty pounds of feed a week. I also hand feed about fifty pounds of largemouth feed a week. All of the fish I catch look fat and healthy. I just ordered 200 more hybrids. Can I order more bass and be O.K.?

You can order them--you just can't put them in.

Bruce is it because the bass multiply so fast?

I was just giving you a hard time, because you're such a stocking addict. I'm probably the worst guy to ask on stocking density. I always just stock adults of the species I want and let 'er rip.

Bruce I like your style!

Theo & others....

Thanks for all the good feed back.

How can I remove the big CCs? They have gotten very hook shy. Up until this spring there were 15+ CCs that would come up when I fed them. Then all of a sudden they stopped coming up to the top. For about a week early this summer the water cleared enough to seen 2-3 foot down.... They are still there but don't feed on the top.

The bass that I've caught are carbon copies of about 12 - 13". I would think that if there were bigger bass I could have caught a few. Last year I caught a bass with an unusual mark on him caught on bass 5 times.

I have stocked 2-3 lbs of pond minnows on 2 occasions for forage. I fertilized (abt a gal of liquid 25-0-0) on 3 different occasions. I did see the algae turn really green and grow quiet a bit. The GC have been keeping it in control. One GC is about 5-6 lbs... he is about 2 years old. I have 5-6 brush piles and to large water lillies along one bank( 10' acrross).

I get so frustrated with it that sometimes I want to have the fish poisoned and start all over again. And then there are the people who sneak in and fish w/o permission... even though the pond is right beside the house. I've caught a couple people and when I told them to leave they told me where to go....

The best advice I have on removing big CC is just keep after them, keep using different baits and tactics. I've been after them for 3 years, and this year I finally feel like I'm on top of the situation.

Catmandoo is probably our champion large CC remover (Having eliminated his bag cats, he is contemplating a name change to "Gillmandoo"). Hey Ken - throw Jack a link to your CC control thread. IIRC it has all the best advice and suggestions in it.

Boy, I hope that never happens to me. I like my freedom too much.

Just calm down GW.....

To catch the big CC I've found nothing better than small BG. I trap some from my pond with a minnow trap. Although not as much fun as a rod and reel, a trotline or jug fishing is probably the most efficient. Trotline: buy already made up and attach some circle hooks, Jug fishing: Tie one end of a 3' length of 30lb test line to a plastic juice bottle and the other to a circle hook. Bait either with a 2 or 3" BG. I would check every couple of hours in case you catch a LMB by mistake.

Ryan-

I will be doing this soon in our pond with very large and very smart CCs. I've found that jug lines are really the only way I can catch them effectively. Do you recommend circle hooks on jug lines as well as the trot lines? I'm sure I'll catch a few of our larger bass, and I'd like to prevent a beauty from being hooked in the gullet. I'm waiting for a full moon in the fall, but I'm hoping that if I check the line every 2 hours or so during the night and use circle hooks, I can prevent the big bass morts.

Yes, circle hooks for both. They don't require you to "set the hook" as with most other styles, making them ideal for jug and trotline fishing. I've never had them gut hook a fish either. Make sure they're very sharp. I hook the BG in front of the dorsal fin just enough to keep them on the hook. By doing so, the hook will easily pull free as the bait is being swallowed hopefully resulting in a corner of the mouth hook.

I couldn't agree more with Theo's statement of just keeping after them. We used many techniques, and finally Mother Nature took the last four big ones about a month ago. I can't say I really miss them.

Probably the Number One bait was shrimp. After dark, I'd cut several fresh shrimp into one or two pieces and throw them into an open area of the pond where they would sink. Then I'd throw a hook, baited with a shrimp, into that area.

Probably the Number Two bait was chicken liver, but it was a distant #2 compared to the shrimp.

Had I found somebody sooner with a bow and fish arrow setup, we'd have probably gotten more that way while feeding in the evening. But, after one arrow in the water, they wouldn't be seen for a couple of weeks.

The cats are very smart, and very wary. It was usually weeks between catches, or even between hookings. I was using musky and saltwater rods, and still lost several when they either moosed themselves around one of my dock piers, or they would go into structure in the middle of my pond. They would do the same with jugs.

In the early days of this adventure, my bass were so hungry, we caught a lot of them hot dogs and chicken liver.

We had a lot of Friday and Saturday night fishing parties.

Here are some links, with lots of good suggestions from others.

Too Many Big Catfish

Sadistic Fish

Cooking Catfish

Mother Nature as Master Pond Boss


Good Luck,
Ken "Gillmandoo"

The saga continues......

I put a trot line in the pond on 3 nights. Two nights with ZERO results... unless you count 25 hooks with the bait stripped.

The other night I had 2 small snapping turtles and 2 3� - 4 LB CCs. One of the cat's bowel was gorged with the Game Fish Chow that I have been feeding them. That 2 less mouths to feed.

Over the next 3 days I have hooked 4 CCs. Only landed one "small" 5 lb'er. The other 3 were monsters. One straightened out a 4/0 catfish hook. Another broke the 17 # test line. The other one made it under the deck where he used his pocket knife to cut the line.

These fish are masters at stripping chicken livers from the hooks... guess that's how they got so big. Their power is amazing.

I'm going to try some gauze and a bread sack tie to try to keep the chicken liver on the hook longer. Anyone one with a better idea? My son suggested chartreuse dynamite. I thought an artillery simulator with a proximity fuse might be better. LOL.... Just kidding.....

Jack, a couple of things from your prior posts tthat caught my attention. For 1/4 acre, too many brush piles. Take most out, the small fish will be exposed, stop feeding for a few days and use small BG with the tail cut for large CC bait.
25-0-0 fertilizer is not what you need to use for an algae bloom. Use more like 0-45-0 or similar. N2 will only cause excessive vegetation. You mentioned it got really green, just like grass when high nitrogen is used, but short lived.