Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Mr. H's big pond

This is the pond that has the fish corral in it. I'm fishing there now for a source of Warmouth for Mr. H's small pond.

This 7 acre pond is overcrowded with LMB. Besides the WM and LMB I've also seen BG, RES, and Crappie. I think I've caught CNBG too.

CNBG?


???

I'd say no doubt on the CNBG.

That second one has got a distinct RES look to him, but I can't quite make out the ear tab.

I caught a RES in the same pond the day before, but it had the typical red tab.

Sometimes the appearance of the red tab varies notably from side to side. Did you get a look at the other side to see if it showed up there?

George and ewest, have you looked at that CNBG picture above?

That's got the classic fin bordering, and really striking dark colors. Looks like he's struggled a little big for food during his lifetime. I love that "humpback" look--just like what George has in his pond. George has the tallest bluegill I've ever seen.

Theo I didn't look at the other side. I will return to the pond and catch this fish again. I think I remember where I let him go....

Bruce, the dark coloration struck me too. This pond had a constant flow from 2 springs that supply water at a time when 99% of them have dried up. The visibility might be 5 or 6 feet. Most of the species I catch there are very light in color.




That CNBG really hit and fought hard for such a little fellow.

Edit: I'm pretty that there's been no feeding program in this 12 year old pond.

What the heck is that fish on the right??

CNBG X RES?

The top one is a CNBG and an angry one I would say. They tend to get dark when agitated.

Good question. IMHO, it has a RES body spec pattern AND I swear I see the coppernose band.

Maybe it's a Crappie dressed up for Halloween?

Maybe it's a Crappie dressed up for Halloween

I was thinking a black crappie X RES.

Isn't this one similar?

Both of these fish have RES genes but I do not think they are the same. The second is I think is mostly RES (immature) with possibly some BG genes. The first is much more of a mix of RES and BG and other (oversized mouth). But with small/stunted lepomis populations it can be very hard to tell

What all should GeeDub be checking for possible morphological evaluation?

-Hard Spine numbers (dorsal fin)
-Soft Ray numbers (dorsal fin, anal fin, ???)
-Pharyngeal teeth on tongue

What else?

ewest, is it certain that these fish are stunted? I believe that the LMB in this pond are, but wouldn't that make it more likely that the lepomis have been kept down in numbers preventing that?

GW - the small and numerous LMB may actually be competing with the sunfish for invertabrates. The tell-tale sign of stunting in sunfish is the larger than normal eyes.

No its not certain that they are stunted. But they are small. It is either or and both make id harder. Not necessarily so on the small LMB = large sunfish. If the sunfish are maturing early in response to LMB predation in an attempt to establish a viable population then their energy will go more toward reproduction and less toward growth. This coupled with limited sunfish food from a unfertile pond can lead to stunted populations of both LMB and sunfish. You may get a few large sunfish and LMB but the bulk will fair poorly. This can occur where most of the large sunfish have been caught and removed.

This bass looks stunted to my untrained eye.



The lepomis line-up. The all have 10 dorsal hard spines and 3 hard anal spines. No teeth on their tongues. The red on the tab of the first fish was stronger in person than in the photo.

Stunted LMB
Female RES
Female CNBG
Female BG?, possibly with a little RES mixed in?

I agree with Bruce. An interesting note about this population. Look at the size of this sexually mature CNBG (the first ones GW posted in this thread)vs the second pic. Comments?

No doubt about CNBG with "classic fin bordering" of pure Florida, but more Arkansas genetics with dark coloration?

Darkest coloration I have ever seen.

Theo take a look at this wrt your question.

Look at this FishBase ID system for factors to look for in fish ID.

Morphology Data

http://www.fishbase.org/physiology/Morph...us&autoctr=2121

I don't expect hard data about these fish, but it's interesting if it comes. I figure folks here will look a just about any fish for their own pleasure if nothing else.

Here's one now....



I have already identified this fish as a brim, or "bream".

I am a fish junky. I'm like "niceeeeeeeeee...." haha

This 7 acre pond has constant flow from springs even in these drought conditions. How much flow would be the threshold for fertilizing? It also gets runoff from 50 acres of cotton/peanuts (not for many months now). The water was very clear this winter but clarity may be as little as 3 feet now. If we get back into the normal rainfall I would think the water would become more clear. My feeling is that it could use more nutrients, but that the pond turns over too quickly, especially in wet weather to make fertilization practical.

Part two of this question is about supplemental feeding. To my knowledge this 12 year old pond has never had a feeding program. Could an automatic feeder help compensate significantly for low nutrients?

There is some FA which wasn't visible this winter. There isn't much on the surface, but 1/3 of my casts come up with a few strands on my lures.

There seems to be a lot of Lepomis in the pond but I haven't caught anything large. I catch a lot of skinny bass. Yesterday I got 4 LMB 12 - 15 inches in about 10 minutes.

I guess what I'm poking around for here is this; will a feeding program make a noticeable difference in the quality of fishing by itself? I assume it can't hurt, but I would like to be able to describe any benefits of feeding to Mr. H. without tying it to a complex program.

Does any of this depend on anything else?

Yes, feeding would help the condition of the fish. If the flow-through is high enough to preclude fertilizing, feeding will still help.

Managing the size and number of the fish species involved will still be needed, but feeding can add (insert number here) of pounds of fish to the pond, which you steer towards fat bream, fat bass, or whatever the management goal is.