Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Hybrid sunfish caught today

I took this hybrid sunfish from my pond today (and returned it safely after snapping this picture). It got me to thinking: just how old can hybrids get?

I moved here in 2002, and the last person to stock the pond did so in '97 or '98. At that time he put in a remedial stocking of l.m. bass, channel catfish and 8 grass carp ... all for a 1/4 acre spring fed pond.

The grass carp are huge (and almost useless against chara); the bass remain pretty much a bunch of runts; the channel catfish are quite big, thanks mostly to the pellets I feed my trout.

But these sunfish interest me. Any way to tell from just a picture if it's a true hybrid or an F2 green sunfish? What little I know about the hybrids stocked is that they came from an Arkansas supplier who sells fish several times each year at the local Co-op.

The fellow who owned the pond then, and stocked the hybrids, swears he was told the fish wouldn't reproduce at all. Obviously, at least two of the fish had other plans!

So, could this be a nearly decade-old hybrid, or merely one very healthy offspring? (By the way, these sunfish have found their way to the trouts' pellets as well.)

Thought I'd add a picture of my pond, too. I was actually fishing for trout today when I hooked this sunfish. -- Mike

How long is that fish? He looks huge.

I don't see anything that leads me to believe that this is anything but your standard GS X BG cross, however there is so much variability within the F1, and F2's that I don't think anything short of a DNA test would tell you for certain.

I'll bet it was a nice fight.

If your climate is anything like Nebraska, a hybrid could conceivably reach 9 years. Bluegill will sometimes get that old, but they're getting pretty geriatric by then.

Bruce --

I should have measured it, but my best guess is approximately 11", and I base that upon the length of the fly rod handle.

It was also incredibly thick-bodied. And, yes, it fought very well indeed -- far better than the 9" - 12" rainbows I was catching this afternoon.

Usually I let guests catch and keep whatever they want -- but with these big sunfish, I often request they do catch-and-release.

I probably have more sunfish this size than bass this size in my pond. I tried stocking fathead minnows for two years, but it simply got too expensive. Especially, when every species in the pond (except the grass carp) including these sunfish chowed down on them. My pond's probably just too small and cool for good l.m. bass; but these sunfish seem to fill their predator niche very well, given the size of their mouths. -- Mike

Looks like a std. HBG ( BG X GSF) to me. You did not say what type of lepomis (BG HBG GSF RES ) were stocked. It could easily be a HBG backcross with a BG and be 7-8 years old. HBG can reproduce but they are a high % male and in lower #s. A LMB crowded pond will have some large BG/HBG etc and very few small ones.

Based on its size ,shape and coloration I don't think it has drifted back toward its GSF relatives.

beautiful fish (and pond) ML.

not that i could even bait bruce's or ewest's hook, i agree with what they say.....that the fish looks like a standard BG GSF cross, and if its a later generation, the gene pool is maintaining a good distance from pure GSF characteristics. the GSF i have in that size range you could put a golf ball in their mouth.

Mike, I believe you are close in the approx 11 inches length.
Obviously you know the standard length of a cork handle on a 5 wt fly rod is 7 inches.

I say 11.4 inches...
Betcha if you closed the mouth and squeezed the tail it would have been close to 12 inches...

Nice fish...!

ML Smith,

Very nice HBG. I've got a small pond with them and have talked to a lot of people about them...as far as I can determine you can't tell which Fx generation is which. The famous (infamous) Bubba of Georgia Giant fame was taken from a pond that had been stocked with GG's over twenty years prior.

One of the interesting things about your fish is that it doesn't show any signs of being caught before, that I can see at least. In my small pond, the HBG all have many battle scars from flys that had hooks in them.

Mike,

Don't know if they will work in your particular situation, but Gambusia are an ideal forage fish for HBG, simply ideal. If they can tolerate your particular water temps, and if you have some shoreline grasses, stock them once and you will never have to re-stock them again.

ML, great fish and beautiful pond. I like the photo with the lawn chairs and canoe in it, looks like the pond is ready and waiting for some fishing action.

Many thanks, All!

Meadowlark, I like the idea of gambusia. They would indeed have plenty of shoreline habitat. I guess my greatest concern would be just how much impact they would have on the bug life in my pond.

I have a good friend who's an entomolgist, and he started doing collections in the pond last December. His preliminary findings are that the pond has lots (and he meant LOTS) of damsel fly nymphs and dragonfly nymphs. What was far more surprising (to me, at least) was the number and diversity of bugs I would consider as trout stream insects: mayflies and caddis. My friend explained that my pond is actually more "like a big pool on a spring stream," hence all the stream insects. Oh, yeah, and I forgot to mention midges. On almost any mild day in winther through late spring, there seems to be some kind of midge activity; and the tout sure seem to love them (but not as much as pellets!)

So, I guess my concern with gambusia might be impact on bug life. But then again, if it's a good, dependable forage base, I should explore them a bit more.

By the way, I should mention the fly this sunfish took. It was a very basic "Fly Tying 101" fly if there ever was one -- a #8 black Woolly Worm!

Sure am sorry I couldn't get out to the first Pond Boss conference -- I won't let an opportunity like that slip by me again. -- Mike

Mike that sounds like a very interesting pond. You might enjoy this pic and the link under it on George's pond flies.




http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000047

Great looking HBG. Your pond looks awesome also.

ML Smith, do you also have longear sunfish in your pond. That ear flap is pretty extended. Could it be a natural cross of GSF and Longear, or did you stock HBG? That is an outstanding speciman.

ewest --
Many thanks for that picture/link to George's flies -- he does some really great stuff. I especially like his pellet pattern. I've been using a black closed cell foam. It looks pretty close to the 3/8" pellets I feed, but they're not very durable. His pattern looks like it can really take some hits.

Tom F --
Thanks for the kind words about the pond. My wife just wishes I'd spend about half as much time working in our orchard as I do on the pond ... so, I have to remind her that our orchard has yet to produce its first trout (or big sunfish).

burgermeister --
Longears were just about the favorite fish of my long-ago youth back in the Ohio Valley. They could be found in nearly any small stream in southwestern Ohio _if_ it had reasonably clean water ... if not, well, then it was likely a green sunfish creek. I really have to research my hybrids a bit more. I think the fellow from Arkansas who sells fish at out local Co-op pays a visit later on this month. I'll see what he can share about their lineage. -- Mike

I had a small apple orchard of about 50 trees. One day decided they were to much work and cut them down.