Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Running power back to my pond

Well we measured the distance from the house to my pond building at approximately 1450 feet. I have enough 6-3 wire to make the run and also a 60 amp breaker box to mount in the building. I would like to run an aerator, dusk/dawn light, possibly a bug wacker. Is this to far of a run? The pond is about 1/4 acre but my contractor is coming in the next couple of weeks to enlarge it. Finished product should be about 2/3 acre. Appreciate any of your insight. I haven't been this excited about anything in a long time. Should have built this pond 20 years ago!!

Thanks,
Willy

are you going to hang it or bury it?

cliffbrook, I was planning on burying it.

1,450 feet really is too long of a run, but not impossible.

You need to do a search for wire size and electrical drop. That far of a run will cause you to loose at least half your power, maybe allot more. If you use copper, that will help and the larger the wire you run will help, but the biggest factor will be your distance.

The real question is how much power do you want at the end of the line? 20 amps? 15 amps?

I have a 600 foor run to my front gate and figure I lost half my power over that run. But I'm just guessing with very rough numbers.

Good luck,
Eddie

Somebody please check this logic and math. It's been a long day.

On my wire chart (if anyone wants it, E-Mail me and I'll send a copy) of various gauges, capacities, and line loss, 6 Gauge is listed as having 0.4 Ohm per 1000 ft. Given you'd have 1450 ft both coming and going, that's close enough to 3000 ft total and 1.2 Ohms in the transmission line.

If 60A was supplied, the voltage loss would be V = IxR or 60A x 1.2 Ohm = 72 volts; not much left over to run anything.

The same chart lists a maximum 37A capacity for 6 Gauge if used for "power transmission" (101 amps for "chassis wiring", which I interpret to be MUCH shorter lengths - inches instead of hundreds of feet). If you figure on getting 30 Amps out, that's still a 36 V line loss.

If you doubled up on the 6-3, that would cut the line resistance in half, down to 0.6 Ohms. Delivering 20 Amps, Line voltage drop would be 12 volts; delivered voltage would IMHO be marginal for running motors (I have a temporary service line to a barn that only delivers 95 Volts; running an air compressor on this is problematic - the motor will start only if it's empty).

I suggest you size your air compressor so you know the current demand, then add on your other uses and see what your total delivery needs really are.

Personally, I'm gonna have to do the math for running power to my own pond and see what voltage the wire I have will deliver.

First you figure the load(s), then you can calculate the wire size needed as Eddie says. There is no substitute for doing the calculations unless you are going to gamble.

I'm awake enough this morning to convert the wire gauge chart to an image and post. If anyone wants the original in excel, holler.

Thanks for the responses guys. Looks like I am going to have to come up with plan B. I did some googling last night for solar lighting and was impressed with what I found. Perhaps I could use solar power for the aeration also. The pond is spring fed (approx. 10 gpm) and when the new section is done will have a small creek feeding it.

By the way, I entered my subscription for the magazine last night. Can't wait to get my first copy.

BuckeyeWilly :

Take a look at these threads on solar aeration thanks in large part to Burgermeister.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000063#000001

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000168

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000145

Solar lighting in my opinion is just a step up from a total waste of money. There must be some out there that you can see something from, but all the ones I've come across don't put enough light out to be usefull to mark a trail.

They will put out a bit at first, but they don't hold a charge very well and in an hour will fade noticably. It just gets worse from there.

Don't trust what the manufactures tell you, or the sales hype. If you come across some that are in use and your happy with what you see, go for it, but save your money until you know your getting a quality product.

Eddie

Thanks ewest on the links. I'm going to check them out now.

eddie, thanks for the heads up on the solar lighting. I will do my homework before buying anything.

Theo thats a nice chart you have there! You say you have that in excel? Does the excel program allow you to plug in the numbers? Am I reading it right by saying that at a 1000 feet the 6 gauge wire will support 37 amps load? Then from the figures can you figure what your voltage drop would be?

Just thinking, would a 2/3 acre pond require all that much of a pump to aerate it properly?
A bug wacker doesnt require that much amps and you could get low voltage lights couldnt you?
I realize you couldnt run your AC and electric range down at the pond but if he doubled the 2 of the wires and ran in the same ditch a extra 10 gauge wire for ground he could have his 2 6 gauge carrying his load with a 6 gauge carrying neutral and a stand alone 10 gauge for ground. This limits him to single phase only, no 220vac to the pond.

If you have a telephone pole near your pond, intalling a meter could be an option. Alot of time the power company will run a new line up to 1000 feet free of charge.

Donnie

No telephone pole but I'll give them a call just the same - can't hurt. If I decide to run the air line from the house (1450 feet)what is the best method for doing this? I would like to bury it but how well would it hold up? It would be running through a hay field. Are there different grades of hose that I could go with? Sorry for all the questions guys but I do appreciate your help.

I've never heard of them going 1,000 feet. My experience is that they will put in the first pole for free. That's 300 feet. After that, you are billed based on what's called a "load sheet" where they determine how much electricty you will use versus what it will cost for them to put it in.

My guess is it will be very expensive. You will have to clear a right of way for the power lines with 15 to 20 feet of open space on either side of the line. If you go underground, it's 30% more in my area and you will still need to have the land cleared for the trencher or tractor that they will use. In some cases, you can dig the trench yourself, but for high power lines, the power company will lay the wire.

They will run the power from the transformer. That is the distance they will measure from.

Good luck,
Eddie

You'd have to check with your local power company to see what length of service they will put in for free. The length may vary with the size of service you get, not necessarily in ways that are intuitively obvious. The power company provided the service for our farm, which runs about 800 feet from the main line to the last big pole with the transformer and then to a slightly smaller pole (my installation) with the main switch , fuses, and electric meter. If we had gotten a 200 Amp service, we would have had to pay for the length in excess of 400 or 500 feet. But the power company put in a 400 Amp service this long for free.

TG: I emailed you a copy of the original file. As you can see, it is only a simple chart with just numbers, no formulas. The "1000 feet" column/reference is wrt the resistance (number of ohms) in that length of each wire size and is to the best of my knowledge not directly related to the current capacity (number of amperes) columns. I found the chart somewhere on line while researching very small size wire info (38-40 Gauge) for work and snagged the info in excel at that time (while I am an EE, my specially is not Power Engineering and I could be accurately described as at best a "shade tree electrician", good or gutsy enough to handle my own power distribution but of questionable value for figuring different situations out). IME, I have run 50 Amps through 6 Gauge for about 190 feet; as I attempted to show with the calculations above, it is much less capable of handling currents that large (while providing a useful voltage at distances at or in excess of 1000 feet.

BW: Take a look in the aeration topics; there has been a good amount of discussion on burying air lines there. Here is one pertinent thread: Aeration Distance

In Central KY I think it's 1000 feet to the big pole with transformer. Then you pay by the foot for the extra, and it's not cheap. My buddy got a good crew and they cut him a break on an extra he went over. If you want it burried from the transformer to the meter you have to do that yourself. Hope this helps.

Donnie

I used to be an electrician for 25yrs and have always read those charts as the max current(37A) you could draw for 1000' run with acceptible voltage drop. If you were only drawing 20amps your drop would be less. If there was no load you would have full voltage at 1000'.
You must however figure an inrush current of about 300% whenever a compressor motor starts up, if this takes you over your 37A you will have a problem.(some motor take less) This is one case where a 220V motor is an advantage as it takes 1/2 the amps of a 110V unit.