Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Questions for excavator/dozer contractor

In three weeks I will be hiring a contractor to build me a dug pond. What type of questions should I be asking the contractor?

My pond will be a dug pond, relying only on annual rain. It will be a little more than an acre. I will be building up the banks only on one side to save the cost of hauling the dirt away. My land is pretty flat with little water shed. The soil seems pretty good for holding water and Northern Alabama seems to have good rainfall.

What are good questions or suggestion should I make? Are there any tips to saving me money on building a pond?

Have them list references of other ponds they have built. Talk to as many owners as you can - see if the ponds leak, if they got the design they wanted, how costs compared to estimates, how long did he take to complete and were there any unreasonable delays (weather you can't help) - are they happy? Inspect the ponds if possible.

Pond experience may not be necessary - my guy did his first pond for us, learned with us from the local Gov't pond expert, and the dam is perfect - but significant excavating experience is, IMO.

Ask how they are going to core the dam and compact the clay there in. If they don't seem to understand the concept, be ware.

Have them dig test holes first to insure you have proper soils - enough clay, nothing but (hopefully) small amounts of gravel or sand. Understand that test holes are money you spend up front to make sure you don't waste much bigger sums later on trying to build a pond that won't hold water.

Will they build the pond you want or just a smooth hole in the ground? (Or is that actually what you want?) To a good dozer operator without bottom structure experience, putting ridges and holes and structure in the bottom is almost blasphemy.

Utilize as many other sources of info as possible on your own - NRCS office (if amenable), topo maps, the experts here - to know things like what your watershed acreage is and should be to fill and maintain your pond. Buy Lusk's "Basic Pond Management" book and as many PB back issues with Mike Otto articles as possible.

Realize that an estimate is just that. The best way to do your pond right at the lowest possible cost is to do it right from the start. Changes you realize you want, odd pockets of bad soil, bedrock where you don't expect it, and other unforeseen problems are best fixed while building, even if the initial cost goes up. An excavator who finishes on a fixed budget despite encountering problems like these is apt to "finish" with the pond unfinished, the problems unfixed. Straightening them out later will probably cost more, possibly much, much more, than fixing them at the beginning.

Thanks Theo,

Those were things I never thought about. Just last week, I ordered, "Basic Pond Management" off this website. I am on a business trip, so I have yet to read it.

I must admit, after reading this forum for the past month, I am pretty excited about getting on with my new hobby, that is, being a pond boss!

I was knee high to a grasshopper when the ponds I now have were built but I remember the guys who built them and they are the best in bigger grading jobs, especially ponds. This crew preferred jobs like large tracts of land to be leveled, sloped, stuff like that. They didn't like clearing logging roads unless they knew you or something to do on a rainy day type. Everyone knew what kind of work they did and if they wanted a parking lot to a specific angle there was one company they called. I would recommend you look for someone who has those qualities in their work for building a pond. Somebody like this will cost more, but in the longrun I think it would be money well spent.

Boomer, Theo has just about said it all and that post is a classic.

A couple or more other considerations regarding the actual planning. Mike Otto said it best. A pond is a place for fish to live. Most dozer drivers will do it your way. Make sure you know what that way is. Want a trench through it? How about a couple of humps? Swimming beach? How about a walkway around it? Want to gravel the walkway? How much runoff do you have? How much of the runoff is under your control?

Go back and read all of Brettski's posts. They are a running description of building his water hole, frustrations and all. As I recall, he was just about a rookie when he started. About 1,000 posts later, you can see the difference. Just don't tell him I said that.

One of the biggest issues I've come across with hiring heavy equipment is the billing process. Make sure you have it in stone how you're being charged. If it's an overal price on the whole job, have all the overuns laid out before hand. If it's an hourly rate, make sure you know when the clock starts and stops. There are more tricks and horror strories than you'd want to know about stunts that have been pulled. If you stay on top of it, you shouldn't have too many worries.

Since all your doing is a dub pond, or a hole in the ground, there's not much to it. Determine how deep you want it, where you want the spoils and how to shape it. Things like steepness of the bank, undewater structure and the overall size.

Nothing a good sized dozer can't do in a few days to a week, depending on how deep you go and how far you want the soil spread.

Eddie

Thanks for all tips guys. Does anyone know a link to a thread that shows underwater ridges, trenches, mounds, or banks.

One thing I would suggest. You mention that you are building the bank up along one side to get rid of spoils. My suggestion is that unless the drainage behind that built up bank is running down hill away from the pond you want to do something so that water does not collect behind the built up bank. This can be messy depending upon where it is and you'd rather have that water in your pond. You said that things are flat with little drainage but some water from surrounding areas must flow into the pond unless you are building it on top of a hill. The pond I just built collects water from all around it via a very, very gradual slope. I did the same as you, I put the spoils on one side of the pond and made a built up area. But the important thing is that on the up hill side of the spoils I dug a very gradual sloped drainage ditch that channels the water both directions around the back side of the built up area and out each end into the pond. In the center is a high spot that allows dry access to the built up bank area while the drainage ditches going both ways channel the water into the pond. That way no water can get trapped and form little ponds along the back side of the pile. Imagine the whole thing being shaped in such a way that if the pond overlowed its banks big time the water would come up and around your built up bank area and turn it into and island with the only access being the high access spot you created which would be like a land bridge onto the island. We just got 4.5 inches of rain last week and it proved to work well. No puddles trapped behind my built up pond bank but all water flowed out the ends from behind it and into the pond thus enhancing its ability to collect water and maintain depth. I don't want to lose a single drop of what little runnoff I have.

Hi BZ,

Thank you for the bank build-up point. You are correct, I might have to re-think how to get rid of my spoils. Is anyone interested in free clay?

This brings up another point, how does one mow the grass on the banks? It might be a bit too steep for a bush hog.

A 1:4 slope or shallower is not too bad in my experience to bushhog. But that first step into the pond with the tractor would be a doozy.

Be sure that your dozer operator understands that you need to catch every drop of water from your land, and if possible, from the neighbor's land. He has to move the spoils anyway, so he may as well move it for the best advantage.

I hired a dozer a few years back and he charged "by the day". I asked him how long a day was, and he didn't want to tell me! He said it depended on how much work he got done, and how much downtime he had, etc. etc. I watched him like a hawk, and he ended up averaging about 9 hours a day over 3 days. Fair enough, I guess.

If your contractor has never dug a pond before, see if he will give you a flat price. That way you will probably come out a lot better. Ponds are always underestimated. Not a day goes by that I don't underestimate mine.

Let me first say long time lurker and first time poster. I have learned alot from this site already.

Boomer we did my pond the way you are doing yours. We were able to keep the slope so I could mow it with a riding mower. It's a little steep for me, but a bush hog should not be a problem.

Donnie

Depending on how solid you bank is but mine is too steep to mow but I manage with bush hog by backing down the slope and doing one hog width at a time. I can cut right town into the water if needed.