Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat Brush Pile in New Pond

I'm digging a 1 ac surface pond, and plan to push a large dead live oak tree into it, on one of the shallow sloping sides, in 5-6 feet of water. Part of the tree will stick out of the water. I want it that way.

The bottom depth will be 10 feet, and will be flat for about 5000 sf. My question: should I anchor a brush pile at this bottom point? Or, is 10 feet too deep?

Sorry, all...

I realize I've committed a forum fopat'

I should introduce myself. I'm in Texas, not all that old, but crotchety beyond my years. Just purchased my "dream ranch" last summer, and building a pond was first on my list of improvements.

I love the outdoors, hunting, fishing, hiking, canoeing, etc.

I look forward to active participation on this board as my experiment with pond management continues...

Thanks!

poland_jack,

Welcome to the forum. As you have observed, there's lots of good info here.

On your question, it is generaly recommended that the structure be in the 4 to 6 foot depth range for bass ponds. Pushing the whole live oak tree is a good thing. It should provide great structure for a long time to come. In my experience, the best structure is the natural kind. Nothing works for me as well as trees/brush.

For a one acre pond, avoid the ten foot water, except where your big tree is....it will cover the entire water column. Since you are using a dead live oak tree, I am assuming you are somewhere in the Texas Hill Country. If so, your pond will likely fluctuate, unless you are blessed by a spring. If you expect water to fluctuate, put several brush piles at different levels, for fish to hide during all levels. Put them within casting distance of the shore, too.

Actually, in Gonzales County, Bob. South of I10. I've actually got 2 of these huge live oaks that fell over in a storm and died. Probably 14' high when laying on their side...so based on your comments, I think I'll stick one smack dab in the bottom, and put another in 5-6 foot depth. Anybody have luck installing wood duck houses? I thought these trees may be a good location.

P_J,
From my experience, in a young pond (3 yrs old), you may also want to consider shade as an option for the location of the brush piles. The piles that I created in a shady/partly shady region of the pond hold way more fish than the ones in a full sun region. This may be offset however, if the Live Oaks are really thick and provide plenty of shade on their own... just a though. Also, this may change over time as my pond evolves. I wonder what experiences some of the long timers have had with different location of their cover.
Sarc

Cut a piece of the wood and soak it in natural pond water. If the water darkens, the wood still has tannins. The stuff is lethal. I ruined my pond by doing that and had to pump it dry. Everything I stocked died.

Wow, I find it hard to believe that natural wood soaking in a pond could cause problems for the fish. In fact, I don't believe it. Trees in water is a natural thing.

Nevertheless, these trees have been down for a number of years, to the point some limbs on the ground side have rotted.

Dave, I wonder if something else good of been at play, Pallets,Xmas trees, floating cedar, oaks maples have always been standard structure additions in northen ponds.Many docks installed with treated CCA lumber. No problems that I am aware of.Sorry to hear you had the problem, I would of had our health dept test the water to see what exactly in the tannin caused the problem as would seem that some of the residue would of still been in the pond soil to resuspend when refilled, perhaps not enough. Please pass along if you hear of this happening to anyone again and what the particulars were as hate to lose another pond. Ted

Ted, I had a huge bunch of fresh dead oaks pushed into the bowl of my new one acre pond. It rained a lot and the trees were half covered. Within about 10 days the water turned inky black. Neither cows or wildlife would go near it. A fish truck came to town and I bought some catfish, bluegill and fatheads. They all died within an hour after coming to the bank gasping. I also tried crawdads with the same result. I called the NRCS, Texas A & M, the County Agent, and the Texas Fish and Wildlife guy close to Fort Worth. None had ever heard of this problem. However, some local dozer operators had heard of it and had killed fish in an established pond by thinking they were doing a favor for the land owner by adding structure from the trees they had cleared for a road. The local feed store owner also was aware of the problem. I got a jar of the water and added some Clorox and it cleared. So, I went to a local pool supply place and bought 10 pounds of chlorine, enough to kill everything in 2 olympic size swimming pools. Didn't faze it. Then I bought a 25 pound bucket at Home Depot. Didn't faze it and I killed a couple more fish in a minnow bucket. Then I bought a 75 pound bucket at Lowes and turned it the color of weak tea and killed some more fish from my creek. Then I started pumping. I pumped it down to about 6 inches and threw a rod in the pump. Texas summer took care of the rest of it. Lusk once gave an analysis, on this board, concerning the problem and relating it to, I believe, water hardness. Maybe he can do it again.

I would test all green wood and try a couple of fish. We don't get a lot of rain in North Central Texas and pumping it out was heart breaking, especially on my new pride and joy.

I agree that varios woods/leaves introduced into a pond can release tannins. It seems that high levels of tannins can be detremental to the fish population. I belive that by ensuring a high alkalinity and hardness of the water (through liming or good alkaline pond substrate) you will buffer the effects of the tannins. However, with a heavy introduction of tannin producers in a pond with low alkalinity/hardness, the tannins can take over. My advise would be to initially boost the alkalinity to good levels before introducing potentially tannin producing vegitation. They should be gradually introduced in order to make adjustmants if things start to get out of hand.

An interesting aside...I read in a few articles that tannins may play a role in protecting fish from some diseases and parasites... but keep in mind... you cant believe everything you read on the internet.

Sarc

Sarc, interesting about possibly letting the alkilinity adjust. I put the very freshly killed oaks in the empty bowl and then it rained within days. As we know, water doesn't fall from the sky with needed properties but gets the alkilinity from the soil. In this case, it certainly didn't have a chance to adjust. I believe I will get a bucketful of pond water, cut a fresh piece of oak, and test the theory.