Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Tilapia Effectiveness...ramblings from a lost mind

Other than questions of the dieoff, I don't recall the negative posts, I must be losing my mind too. Ewest (a.k.a. The Link Master), can you put me on a few, I would like to re-read the harsh comments ML quotes as "When I first tried to discuss Tilapia on this Forum, it was often met with disdain, doubt, and downright disgust." I would like to find the witch hunters

I started the thread last year, titled "This Year's Tilapia Thread." Don't recall any bonafide negativity, maybe some concerned individuals with questions is all.

Soooo, can you veteran HSB growers help us neophyte HSB growers out a little bit on the �fight to the death� concerns of this fish?

Namely;
1. At what surface water temp. do you consider lethal when angling HSB? (81 degrees?)
2. At what water temp. would you expect to loose say 50 %?
3. At what temp. do you consider maximum for near 100% survival? Using proper angling techniques (i.e. Quick catch and proper release, proper hooks, etc.)
4. As you mention, larger fish are much more vulnerable to �fight to the death� syndrome. Are there standards you use for say 3#, 4# fish, etc.?

Thanks,
Ed

Ed, I consider myself a neophyte HSB grower as yourself, but I�ll take a shot at your questions.

We first stocked our first HSB in 09-26-03, but survival rates were low due to predation, and supplemented in the fall of 2005.
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000199;p=1


We are now catching 3+ lb HSB, presumably from the 2003 class, having lost by long distance release possible larger fish. I have observed one small school of HSB possibly in the 4# class.

ML has been more successful than we have in growing larger fish, reported to be in 5-6# class if I recall correctly, so he should be more qualified to comment.

1. My experience is limited to the lethal temperature HSB, but I successfully revived one last week at 86.3 near surface temperature. I stop fishing for striped bass at 83 degrees, not because I can�t revive them, but because I can�t catch them with flies or lures in shallow to intermediate water. Live bait fishermen catch them in 60 ft of water just barely in oxygenated water at thermocline, but they are dead when they hit the surface.

2. I believe your 81-degree is a good one � unless you intend to resuscitate in aerated live well. I don�t intend to lose 50% - I�ll stop fishing for them same as stripers.

3. I have to rely on my striped bass experience � I would say that 100% survival, with proper landing and release procedures, optimum near surface water temperatures would be between 45 and 80 degrees.

4. Ed, again with striped bass � small stripers up to a couple of pounds can be caught anytime at any depth near shoreline structure and in shallow coves, usually running with white bass, with no concern about survival. Large fish will school in open water in warm water months.

Again I want to emphasize that proper handling has as much to do with survival as water temperature, regardless of the temperature.

Great sport fish � they will out fight a striped bass with the toughness and survivability of a white bass.

Bruce Condello can address these questions better than anyone that I know of � he�s very knowledgeable and has been very helpful to me.

George Glazener
N.E. Texas

Ed,

Excellent post. I greatly appreciate you raising these questions. As a neophyte HSB grower, I would love to have the answers.

I'd like to add a question or area for discussion....certainly not to take away from your questions which are excellent, but hopefully to get more info on the table.

The additional area is water quality. I didn't start seeing HSB angling mortality until the Texas droughts hit last year....but I also didn't have relatively large fish until last year. I would like to know which is more of a factor...size or water quality or both? I do have aeration, but with the extreme drought, have absolutely zero "flushing" or refreshing of the water. This causes me to wonder with heavy artificial feeding, larger HSB and possibly less than great water quality coupled with 90 degree water temps, I have a recipie for disaster....all indications I have are just that...disaster awaits for the larger HSB when caught this summer.

Relative to this aspect, i.e water quality, is there a test I can have performed to measure this factor? I suspect, don't know, but suspect, it may explain variations from one pond guy to the next in HSB mortality rates. With high feeding, no flushing, and even with aeration, I'm really concerned that I'm going to loose a bunch of trophy (for me) HSB in a couple of weeks when all the relatives come fishing.

Anyone's thoughts appreciated and thanks again Ed for raising these questions for open discussion.

Excellent point ML - I have often worried about the same water quality issue - our ponds are nutrient rich and have not "flushed" in nearly three years of drought.

A point to consider is that we did deepen the shallow end of our main pond earlier this year in order to add �more water� � perhaps this new water helped to reduce the nutrient load?

George & ML,
It�s great to here from two experienced HSB growers!

I believe we have deviated from the original �tilapia thread� but please indulge me this post.

George � I revisited your post from a couple years ago and it matches my experience with HSB thus far. One month ago I would have bet there was not a single HSB that survived the previous years stocking. We are just now catching a few in the 8 inch range; not much growth for a year as they were stocked at about 6 - 7 inches in 2005. We did manage to catch an eleven incher last weekend! What a thrill. Some of Bruce�s finest!

These fish are far different than pellet feeding rainbows

When the feeder goes off, an occasional YP will rise vertically from the bottom depths to take one pellet and then return to the bottom? This is very unlike a rainbow that will remain near the surface gobbling up pellets until all are gone!

The HSB on the other hand do not lie under the feeder waiting for feed dispersal. Maybe 10 minutes after the feeder goes off a violent feeding frenzy may take place 50 ft. from the feeder where pellets eventually drifted. This behavior is new to me. I suppose it�s due to their schooling behavior.
I am very excited about HSB as a new and different sport fish. I am very interested in mortality of this fish due to water temperature extremes, low DO, and lower water inflow rates due to our continued drought also.

Thanks,
Ed

Ed,

You are the first to mention a strange thing I have observed also at the feeders....the HSB actually "herd" the pellets and move them sometimes several feet, 20 or 30 feet is not uncommon at all, away from the feeding zone. It is much like a saltwater school of fish herding baitfish so that the predator can pick them off. I really enjoy watching it and trying to guess which way they will carry the pellets. Fascinating! Sometimes they will end up with a bunch of pellets herded way out in the middle of the pond, working on them just like their saltwater cousins would on a school of shad.

Oops - See edit above
Correction on initial HSB stocking � stocked 9-26-03

Observing HSB feeding habits have been an interesting and fun process.
Early on they were timid and would only feed on the far out pellets due to being timid with BG�s and CC aggressiveness.

Now that they are the big boys on the block they will splash water out on the bank...

Guys you may want to revisit the paper below wrt some water quality info for HSB in ponds.


http://uaex.edu/wneal/pages/Publications/Publications/manuscripts/thesis.pdf

Eric, thanks for your reminder, what I remember most about this paper is the biography�.priceless...

Yep, Dr. Neal can write.