Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Who has the best Bass Pond?

I am constantly reading on this forum about how to raise trophy bass. The thing I never read about is someone consistently catching trophy bass from a small lake or pond. Since I have another year to decide what my pond will ultimately be stocked with, I would like to hear about some really good bass fishing and what you did to achieve the fishery. Who has the best bass pond? What is the best bass fishery you can hope for in a pond?

That's a great question, PFF, and I'm looking forward to reading answers to it myself.

I wonder if really great bass pond owners want to advertise their presence on-line, or keep their private honeyhole a secret. For the record, all my bass (and they are so overpopulated, their numbers are astronomical) are skinny, scrawny runts in such poor condition that few of them survive the encounter with hook and line - definitely not the kind of trophy bass someone would want to sniff out on-line! :rolleyes:

Theo --- not yours to

PFP its about the goals , what is a trophy bass pond anyway. If you manage for huge LMB you have certain methods and results, balanced fishery different methods and results and still different ones if you want large #s of LMB . The basics are the same but how you manage them is not.

PondsForFun,

Your interesting questions prompted some thoughts:

1) First on "consistently catching trophy bass from a small lake or pond". A small pond, less than 15 acres, that is fished often, say once a week minimum with C&R, may contain trophy LMB, but they can not be consistently caught. Of course, it depends on one's definition of "consistently", but trophy bass are not caught weekly in a small pond and not monthly, and rarely more than two or three times over their entire lifespan.

2) Second, regarding "really good bass fishing and what you did to achieve the fishery". Every one has their own definition of really good bass fishing. Here's mine: a catch rate of 10 LMB per hour by a skilled angler using fly/lures with a 50% probability of one fish of 5 pounds or greater for each hour of fishing." To achieve that requires LMB with native(northern) genetics, light fishing pressure, excellent natural forage, and a shotgun on guard 24/7.

3) Who has the best bass pond? The person who has met all of their pond objectives.

4) What is the best bass fishery you can hope for in a pond? My answer is the same as discussed in #2 above. To get there, and still be able to fish regularly (weekly) requires multiple ponds, IMO. There simply is no way around it. Fishing pressure must be minimized and a way to do that without giving up fishing is to have multiple ponds. I do not buy the argument that one 5 acre pond is better than two 2.5 acre ponds in terms of meeting objectives outlined above. Same for 10 acre pond vs three 3.3 acre ponds. The 90%/10% rule applies directly to all small ponds and as a result, LMB are easily conditioned. Smaller ponds, in which fishing pressure can be managed, i.e. rotated, are extremely effective. LMB, in excess of 8 pounds, can be raised and caught from as little as 1/4 acre ponds, but not every week or every month.

The goals for my two ponds do not include trophy bass so I cannot address your question PFF but I find ML's comment #4 interesting. If the funds were available, my approach would follow this line of thinking.....multiple smaller ponds.

Theo,
I thought part of your objective was to have a bass heavy pond to help grow big BG?

What a great question.
I have written a book called, "Raising Trophy Bass."
There are a handful of principles to raising big bass. Just a handful. It starts with habitat. Gotta have habitat, not only for the giants, but all the forage fish and bass on their way to trophydom. Next, food chain. No food chain, no big bass. Know food chain, know big bass. Third, genetics. Got to have great genetics. That means we learn to deal with Florida strain fish. One problem I have had to try to overcome is best told in a story. Back in the early 80's when I first started messing with Florida bass, I started getting complaints about them being less aggressive, impossible to catch, finicky. People flat out told me Florida bass were impossible to catch. In the beginning, I blew them off. Heck, it didn't make any sense to me. My vast knowledge of fish production, fueled by a prideful amount of common sense suggested to me that a bass could not possibly grow to 13 pounds without eating. If they eat, they must bite. Therefore, I didn't need to read much Shakespeare to understand these issues must be fishing issues, not having a thing to do with fisheries issues in iambic pentameter. Therefore, in my opinion, these fishermen simply sucked as big bass fishermen. Change tactics, change baits, change gear, change your attitude and be successful. Little did I know. Big bass truly have big bass attitudes, and since less than 5% of the entire population are huge, the odds of them being caught are low. John Q. Bassfisherman has more than a 95% chance of failing to catch those big bass on any given day. You have to know where they are, what their habits are, how to irritate them...things that most fishermen have no idea how to do. That illustrious list of fishermen includes me. Onward. Last, selective harvest. Gotta selectively take bass out at some point. If you do all these things in order, you can raise some great bass, even in fairly small waters. I have seen some huge bass come out of small waters, three or four acres. ML is right, though, one really needs bigger water to grow more and bigger bass.
What's really cool about this trophy bass phenomenon is the mystique behind it. Think about the giant bass caught recently in San Diego. Is it a record? Is it a fluke? Is it really 25 pounds? We all have opinions about it, but the exciting thing is the mystery. The fish was released. Will someone catch it again? Is there another one out there, lurking?
Part of the quest of growing trophy bass is the mystique. I have several great trophy bass lakes under management where the owner may actually only catch a double digit monster four or five times a year, but is able to load the boat with three to five pounders, most every time out. The dominant attitude seems to be something like this..."We want to be able to catch 3-5 pound bass with a legitimate opportunity to catch a monster." It seems that as long as they KNOW the lake produces giant bass, or that it has some in it, these guys are pretty happy. They know the next cast could be the monster. They know the monster exists, and part of the journey is to outwit it. It's as much about the hunt as it is about the capture. Sure, they want to see a big fish, and one can only go so long without seeing it without becoming frustrated. That's one reason a timely venture out with and electrofishing boats is sometimes wise.
Because of this mindset, raising trophy bass is as much an adventure into a landowner's philosophy of his water as it is the biology in it. It's also a problem for guys like me when dealing with upwardly mobile middle aged people who know they can go through Jack-In-The-Box and actually see the taco at the window. Fast food society, so to speak. Trophy bass raising takes patience, not a drive through window. No, you can't 'money whip' a trophy bass lake into shape for the long haul.
Ray Scott may well have one of the best trophy bass lakes in the U.S. I've been on it several times, in electrofishing boats, or with a rod and reel in my hand. His lake is managed pretty much full time by his staff. They check temperatures, make sure the alkalinity is right, keep it fertile when it needs to be, keep the feeders full and operational. He has one of his handmade lake-life pumps on it, recirculating top water to bottom. Fish are genetically superior. He has bluegill, redear, golden shiners, threadfin shad and gizzard shad. The structure is thoughtfully designed.
His lake has as many big bass in it as any I have seen.
But, catching one isn't common. But, one can catch 1-2.5 pound bass regularly, along with some 3-5 pounders, an occasional 8, even a 9. But, run an electrofishing boat through it, and you pick up several double digit bass. The lake has plenty of forage fish, always. It has too many intermediate size bass, but is still a fun lake, intensely managed.
The mystery and intrique about that lake still lies in the quest to catch a giant bass. They are there, everyone knows they are there, and those privileged few who get to try their hand know that giant bass dwell beneath the surface. That makes the journey more important than the fish. If you catch one, wow, what an experience. If you don't, wow, what an opportunity.
So, to me, the entire concept of raising trophy bass is predicated on the mystique of largemouth bass. Doing the right things, creating the right habitat, stocking and managing the food chain, great genetics, selective harvest...all this fisheries stuff extrapolates into the fun part.
That makes the bottom line something a bit different than most people think. Working with many different people in hundreds of different environments has led me to believe that this fisheries management business truly has little to do with the fish and more to do with the people and their land.
Switching gears now, and talking about raising trophy bass, there a few things which come to mind. Some lakes simply won't become trophy bass lakes. To me, it's like finding a zebra, painting it brown and calling it a donkey. It ain't a donkey.
In north Texas, if I ask someone where to fish with the best chance to catch a big bass, the first suggestion is Lake Fork. Lake Fork is renowned as a trophy bass fishery. But, if I ask that same person where to go to catch stripers, it wouldn't be Fork. It would be Texoma, or Whitney. If I asked the same north Texan where to go to troll 75 feet deep to catch a lake trout, they would look at me with a clueless look on their face, think about it, and suggest one of the great lakes. Each lake has the best habitat, food chain, etc, for whatever it is. In the case of Lake Fork, its habitat and food chain works great for giant bass. Same principle for Texoma and its striper population. If fisheries management were simply an issue of managing population dynamics, we could catch a bunch of fish out, restock with the fish we want, and presto-chango, we would have the lake/pond of our dreams. There are ponds and lakes out there we might like to make into great trophy bass lakes, but it ain't gonna happen. Too much shallow water, too much plant life, too much cover for forage fish, too little cover for intermediate size forage fish....you see where I'm going. The basic principles must be created, followed and managed.
PFF asked, "What is the best bass fishery you can hope for in a pond?"
The best answer I have today is this...if your goals are firmly in hand, and specific, and you design the lake with those goals in mind, and then stock the right fish at the right time, keep the environment and habitat clean and productive, you can expect to raise 50-75 pounds of largemouth bass per acre of water. That's for a thoughtfully designed and stocked pond.
But, wait, there's a twist. Nowadays, we have ways to artificially prop up a pond. We can overstock with forage fish, add largemouth bass trained to feed, aerate and recirculate the water, supplementally stock affordable forage fish. Do this, and you can multiply bass by five-fold.
All this stuff runs full circle back to the philosophy with which you attack this fun-filled journey.
Biologically, the bottom line is this...if someone is willing to create the best habitat, stock the right numbers of fish at the right time, take some measures to manage and monitor the fishery in a timely way, then selectively remove bass at the right time, one can have an outstanding bass lake.
95% of the time, based on my experiences, people aren't willing, or maybe not able, to go to the trouble it takes to manage their bass properly. Consequently, they wind up with a lake with stunted, runt, cull bass that don't quite reach their size potential. Raising Trophy Bass is an art, based on a few fundamental principles, laced with the passion to see the mission to its fruits.
By the way, I read this question this morning before church, and had mixed emotions about answering it, but knew I had to. It's my passion, it's my living, and worth the effort to try to explain from these eyes. It really is a great question.

WOW! What can I say Bob but thank you for a well thought out and complete answer. I owe you a steak dinner if you ever come to the Brownwood, Texas area.

Theo and meadowlark thank you for your answers!

Although Theo should write a book: Raising runty bass. Just a joke THeo!

ewest and Russ much appreciated.

That is a keeper reply from Bob if I have ever seen one!!!

And that really was a great answer!Thanks for answering it, even if it wasn't my question. :p

Theo and Ewest have loads of 2 to 3 lb. bluegill, but don't tell anybody. :p

Where?

Those two are top notch pondmeisters and ichthyusiasts!

wow....that's why i come here...mostly to read and learn..but sometimes to reply. GReat post, Mr Lusk.

I think you also have to decide what you mean by a "trophy bass." I think of it like the deer in texas compared to a trophy here in SC. Am i looking for a 180 inch deer on my land? Nope. A 125 inch deer is more like it.

Same thing with a bass pond. The lure of the 25 pound monster doesn't do it for me when a ten pounder is all I can ask for....or is it? maybe if i devoted the time, effort, and resources into aeration, feeding, etc, I might be able to raise the bar a little...

I have the pleasure of being a part-owner in a 60+ acre pond that holds some solid 10 pond bass. Admittedly, other than doing some work on the structure, we are fortunate enough to have a pond that can grow big fish. My concerns are that it is a pond created by damming a creek and has some "trash" fish like the crappie and chain pickerel that concern me long term...couple that with an extended drought and we might be in trouble.

Still, I'll take an outing of 3-5 pounders with the chance for a 10 pounder any day.

Thanks again for all the info....

[img]http://images.snapfish.com/3468%3A%3C667%7Ffp33%3A%3Enu%3D3246%3E%3B%3B%3B%3E3%3B6%3EWSNRCG%3D32336772664%3A%3Bnu0mrj[/img]
i am envious of fishing Mr Scott's pond...but the few times I have seen it on TV, it appears devoid of cover. That can't be....but I prefer to fish a pond with all types of cover--sticks, humps, islands, brushy banks, etc...

and I like to eat fish.
[img]http://images.snapfish.com/3468%3A%3C667%7Ffp33%3A%3Enu%3D3246%3E%3B%3B%3B%3E3%3B6%3EWSNRCG%3D3233677274%3C8%3Anu0mrj[/img]

and take kids
[img]http://images.snapfish.com/3468%3A%3C667%7Ffp343%3Enu%3D3246%3E%3B%3B%3B%3E3%3B6%3EWSNRCG%3D323367728444%3Cnu0mrj[/img]

and catch BIG fish
[img]http://images.snapfish.com/3468%3A%3C667%7Ffp33%3B%3Enu%3D3246%3E%3B%3B%3B%3E3%3B6%3EWSNRCG%3D32336772844%3B%3Bnu0mrj[/img]


(sorry....i just learned how to post pics and went a little overboard...)

Bob you covered it, but forgot to mention Mr. Scott's Presidental lake has tilapia as well, at least when we shocked it. And yes he does have some excellent cover. Also you said he checks his alkalinty. I thought he was in the black belt and told me has have never had to lime the pond and this is one of the reasons I thought he had such a high biomass.

I tell clients it is not hard to grow big bass , it just takes the right amount of time, experience and money to see it through. I'm not sure we have the best in the country but darn close on a few of the ponds we have worked on from day one.

I know a few people who check their alkalinity and never have to add lime. It is an info thing to monitor changes and effects.

Me.