Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Sunday Evening Poll

We've had several discussions about how a new fresh body of water can end up having fish in it while the pond owner has done no stocking.

Suggestions have been friendly human neighbors, fish eggs stuck to birds or turtles, storms such as tornados, and water overflow events.

Someone recently suggested that birds may instinctively transport fish from one pond to another in order to create a new food base in the new body of water.

So the poll is: Do you believe that a certain type of bird has an existing instinct to try to populate a new body of water with fish by transporting some quantity of live fish from an existing pond to a new pond?

Please give a YES or NO answer if possible.

No.
I have never seen a bird give up food to become an aquaculturist. They are opportunists, feeding as they can. If they drop a fish into some water, it wasn't on purpose.
Since they can fly, fish eating birds move from pond to pond, or river to lake, or...to get the food they need.
I honestly don't know how fish get into a new pond.
I have seen fish swim from pond to pond via a small stream between the two during heavy rains. I have found small fish in cattle hoof prints in a field after a rain.
I have seen a bird catch a fish, take off flying, the fish flop and fall out of his mouth...into the dirt.
I have seen birds move fish from pond to pond on a hatchery, because all there is is pond next to pond, next to pond. But, I have never found hard evidence birds move fish from one pond to another in recreational ponds.
The theory that eggs are transported on bird legs doesn't fly with me, either. That's because eggs must have specific conditions to hatch. Most eggs are sticky. Shells are wet. Eggs breathe, and can't live in silt. That's why most fish eggs are either in a nest or stuck to a substrate, so they can breathe. Eggs stuck on a bird's leg have little hope of hatching. First, when a bird is airborne, there's a drying effect on the stuck eggs. Second, if the egg comes off the leg, it most likely happened in mud, where the egg can't breathe. But, let's say the egg hatches. There's another problem...we need a boy fish and a girl fish to make other little fishes.
So, two eggs must make it and hatch, and grow up, then meet and do what fish do.
To me, even after 26 years of doing this fish business stuff, how fish get into a new pond is more of a mystery now than ever.

NO.

Not instinctive.

BUT, I bet it happens through shear circumstance. I have caught a number of LMB with healed heron strikes on their backs, one that had two. I have surprised a heron that just caught a bass from my pond, causing it to fly to the other side of the pond where it dropped the bass - on the ground. By the time I got to the LMB it was non-revivable. But if the heron had dropped it in the water, it might have been soon enough for it to live.

Now suppose the heron catches a fish, it flies to one of my neighbors ponds (>12 within a half mile, several within 1/4 mile) and drops the fish in the water. It might be quick enough for the fish to live.

There's only an infinitesimal chance of this happening each time a heron catches a fish. There will be a distance limit between ponds, over which no fish can be flown fast enough to survive (varying, of course, on the species of fish, species of bird, and (at least) the weather - think what a cold rain could do to the fish's chance of living?). But it could happen.

Assume a 1/1,000,000 chance of a heron catching a fish and flying to another pond. A further 1/1,000,000 chance of the fish landing in the pond and living. Now figure in the number of ponds/other bodies of water in the U.S., the number of herons/cormorants/merganzers/etc., and how many time per year they have to catch a fish to live. The remainder is left for the Carl Sagan inspired student, who is not getting over the flu and hence has the full use of his/her mathematical facilities, to calculate as an exercise.

But definitely NOT on purpose.

No.

That is one hard to answer question. I have seen 3 year old stock tanks on the side of a hill with no way for outside water to enter. Greenies by the dozen. I have no explanation. I looked and looked for the fish I thought I saw in my new pond and have never seen them again. I am not sure what I saw. It was muddy and windy with the wind trails you see on the water sometimes. I only saw a glimpse of something. Could have been anything. I retract my statement about a blue heron bringing some greenies into my pond. It is a complete mystery to me how isolated ponds always seem to end up with fish. It would be a fun experiment to build a small isolated pond and use a motion activated camera to record everything that happens, and see how long it would take for fish to appear.

No


But I've actually observed fish eggs and live gambusia (from a pregnant victim) stuck on the beaks of small herons and egrets.

Kingfishers are also a likely source of transplanted fish. They sometimes disgorge and drop their catch to get away from predators or robbers.

Possible but only an infinitesimal chance but not on purpose.

Ten words as a one word answer was not possible.

The odd are just too overwhelming. Editing here: I'm leaving it just like it is. It prompted Theo's response.

However, just how do mosquito fish get into new ponds?

Shame on you, DD! It's those big Skeeters in Texas. A smaller Gambusia goes to eat a big ole mosquito; the Skeeter takes off and flies to the next pond. The Gambusia realizes he's outsized and lets go.

I used to wonder about that. One day I was fishing in a large lake that had a huge wading bird rookery in overhanging trees. The birds are such sloppy eaters and they fight so much, that it doesn't take much imagination to figure out how fish get into new ponds.

Some birds almost make a living by making other birds drop their fish.

As for mosquito fish, that's easy. When a gravid female is being eaten and her belly gets popped, the unborn babies can stick to the bird's beak. I suppose they can live 4-5 minutes, and that's long enough to be carried 2 miles by the bird.

Dave- Is this refering to the various personalities we have in this forum? :rolleyes:

I used to be a skeptic about birds transferring fish or fish eggs to other ponds but I am now a believer. Why? Because a friend and manager of one branch of the largest ornamental fish farms in the country says it not only happens, but he has evidence of it. (Ozark Valley Fisheries)

In their 200 ponds in Martinsville, Indiana they grow out some unusual gold fish and koi varities that ARE NOT sold locally. Furthermore these fish are aquarium fish that are too expensive to be planted into outdoor ponds even if they were available locally. But yet they are showing up in nearby private ponds up to several miles away. He maintains that since the eggs are quite sticky and the farm gets visted by hundered of herons and ducks a year, he believes the eggs may be sticking to the webbed feed of visiting birds and transferred to nearby ponds. He admits the odds are against it but considering the birds fold up their webbed feet, or even tuck them in as with ducks that may keep the eggs moist albeit for a short amount of time. It wouldn't be a stretch to assume at least one egg could make it to a nearby pond alive. After the fish become established in that pond the same process could take them to another and so forth.

Considering the high fecundity of the carp family, and it only takes one egg to produce one ifsh and two to potentially produce a male and female I'm a believer. As far as other species I really don't know.

Some of you many not be aware of this but you can ship trout eggs fertilized or unfertilized without any water as long as you keep them cool and moist. Why would other fish eggs be any different?

An African Swallow or European Swallow........AHHHHHHHHHHH

I am still not sure about this but I think I am going to go with Cecil just because he used the term Fucundity in his post.

How do you say that word? I think it a lot but ama not brave enough to say it.

I was certain it was one of those "moderate-able" words.

Look it up in your Funkin' Wagnell.

It refers to the number of eggs a fish can produce. A fish with a high fecundity produces a lot of eggs i.e. carp.

It's pronounced fee - cun' - dity.

I think everyone understands the actual question. After typing it in, I felt I could have worded it better, but Lusk had already responded, so I didn't want to edit it.

Just in case it changes your answer, I am not asking if you think that new ponds are populated by birds dropping fish in.

A rephrasing of the question is as follows:

Do you think it is possible that there is an existing species of bird that has an innate instinct to populate a new pond by transporting fish from an existing pond?

As an example, why do some dogs bury bones? Why does a squirrel gather nuts? Another example that we all exhibit is that when we see a new body of water, we can't help but want to put some fish in it. A kid does the same thing, and he does not
know why.

These are not exact analogies, but you get the picture.

Nope!

Why is it my job to always point out the obvious?

I think you are more likely to find a coevolutionary answer, as opposed to a cause effect.

quote: Do you think it is possible that there is an existing species of bird that has an innate instinct to populate a new pond by transporting fish from an existing pond?

answer: No

Possible rephrasing: Do you think that species, in this case birds and fish, coevolve in a way that benefits both species?

Sometimes yes, and in this case, maybe.

Think of it this way. There could possibly be a manner of feeding and transportation favored by a particular bird, that allowed a transportation mode for fish, which in turn populated ponds, which in turn benefited the bird in question. This could have led to better fitness/survival of that particular bird and it's sloppy fish handling habits.

Purely opinion, of course.

no.....

Do the birds carry fish to ponds to stock them? No, the probable incidental stocking of ponds is a (very, very) small percentage by-product of their normal fish catching behavior.

Do the squirrels spread their nuts around to grow new nut trees? No, the trees grow from the percentage of nuts the squirrel can't find after hiding them.

Does the dog bury a beef bone to try and grow a new head of cattle? No, he does it so that when he digs it up later and brings it into the house, it's covered with mud and really, really stinky. At least that's why my dog does it.

Keep in mind that I'm not looking for a specific answer. I'm not trying to argue one point vs. another.

However, Theo, another way to look at some of your statements above are that the dog is saving the bone for later. As far as my dog, I'm usually the one who goes and finds one of his bones. He tries so damn hard to not pay attention to me when I'm in the vicinity of a recent burial.

The squirrels are storing food for the winter, and the growth of new trees will already happen as the nuts or acorns are already on the ground; doesn't matter if the squirrel drops a nut.

I'm not saying that every species of animal tries to create a regenerating food source. I'm just amazed at the power of instinct and how it may play here.

We had a cat that killed a lot of wild life around our house. One time I saw the cat with two baby rabbits. It was half way through eating one of them. It had crippled the second baby rabbit, without killing it, to save it for a little later. Sure I poured a whole bucket of water on the cat, but then I don't like cats (it was our cat).

The main reason I even posed the question is because someone (don't remember who) suggested that as a possibility, a bird intentionally putting fish in pond. If it were the case, it would be very interesting.

Good thread.