Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations TGG... to post or not to post???

Cooler heads prevail. PI, I would like to invite some "first hand" experiences to validate the HBG as a trash fish. I've read reports, Lusk's posts, etc. I have truly never seen anyone so bent out of shape over one type of fish. Surely you dont think they can produce several generations in 1 yr? I really dont know about them, never seen one, but most people that I have talked to that have them seem to be pleased with the fun they are for them and their kids. There seems to be enough curiosity on the forum to continue with a valid test stocking. I wonder if Gater is still considering it?

Robinson, next thing we know, you'll be putting down the majestic blue cat. :rolleyes:

My thoughts on ML's experiment. ML, and others, please correct me if I'm wrong.

As I understand it, he is attempting to determine if the GG is an acceptable fish for a small kids pond. They are artificially fed with no predators. He accepts the premise that sooner or later, someday, their progeny will have to be eliminated by rotenone or maybe the addition of suitable predators. The GG, like other hybrids, are not marketed as a forage fish. Fishing by Grandkids only should keep them from becoming too hook shy. Larger sunfish can become just as hook shy as bass.

Given the parameters, he is not attempting to answer the question of whether the GG shows superiority over other hybrids or even over common BG or CNBG. To test whether it is a superior fish, a GG test group and control group(s) using one or more of the other sunfish would have to be established. Since every pond is unique, they would have to be stocked simultaneously and each sampled over time with the results logged and reported. When the original stockers were large enough enough to escape predation, a predator such as male bass could be introduced to eliminate the offspring to cut down on food competition with the original stockers.

ML has already proven, to my satisfaction, that he can raise and catch large CNBG. He has also reported that he can err by stocking a bunch of small HSB and mistakenly leaving a LMB in the pond. Burp!

Conclusive tests are tough. The disclaimer of ceterus parebus(sp?) or "all other things considered equal" has to be stated. However, they really never are equal. This is where genetics could come into play and I know very little about genetics. Stocking GG and another HBG under controlled test conditions would never be really conclusive. What would the results be if one of the species came from a weak parent? It should skew the results. To properly test superiority, multiple tests under varying conditions would be needed. Select test subjects of KNOWN parentage would be needed. Even then, there are always "nay sayers". But then, differences of opinion are why we have horse races.

ML will be successful on at least one part of the test. He is attempting to put smiles on Grandkids faces. As long as Grandpa is fishing with them, they could be a bunch of 4 inch runts.

I worked with me 40 years ago. Thanks for dredging up a memory, DD.

Life, The Universe and Everything (I'm sure Theo will get this),

Gator is in. The rain eased my drought and I am waiting for my spring stocking of GG's. I am going low on the stocking number recommendation + feeding (lightly) + no areation (due to remote nature of my pond) in my 1/4 acre kid pond. Possible HSB for preditor. I will start another thread when things get rolling.

Gator

Gator:

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Gotta love the Hitchhikers Guide!

Add another YES.

posted by PI

"Only thing I will say here, bluegill introduced in the fall/winter, will spawn within a couple of months. Then a month or two later, F1 spawns, a month or two later F2 and so on, depending on the climate. We will find out."

Would the pros please weigh in on this; confirm or deny. This just goes against what little I know about their spawning. I know a yr. class may spawn mutiple times, but several generations in a year? is this corrrect?
--------------------

Debra, another yes. I would like to learn more about GG's.

Thanks

Well ML, deal or no deal?

Gator

A mature GG will spawn in the Spring. First stock GG's are considered F-1 generation. It is possible, and has been noted, that F-2's can produce a spawn by the end of the summer season depending on climate. ML stocked HSB with the GG's, so that predator will soon have the job of eating up most to all of the F-2 generation. I will say that Ken did an experiment once where he left small hooks in the GG's after each catch. He caught at least one (maybe more) that had 10 hooks still in it's/their jaw. Maybe they aren't as hook shy after all.

Be it through the forum or personal email (still ML's decision) I am excited about the experiment. My "in office" time does not allow me the benefit of doing this type of experiment, so kuddos to ML (and Gator now also) for taking on the task. Don't forget that although I deal with this fish on a daily basis I am also here to learn.

Deb

I didn't know that he had done some side by side stocking. The results should be interesting.

Quote by Debra "It is possible, and has been noted, that F-2's can produce a spawn by the end of the summer season depending on climate."

So 4 to 6 mos. old can spawn if enough warm weather is left, and good growth. Is this consistent with regular or CNBG spawn ages?

Let me revise that slightly. I have noted eggs in female GG (F-X) as small as 4 inches. Male maturity is still at question.

Deb

Got it, PI. The main thing I have seen is that most of the nest building males needed more time for maturity. It would be interesting to define the behavior of GG males vs. parental BG males.

The tribe has spoken. Coming soon to a forum near you...the TGG experiment results.