Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Using footers or sinking posts?

I've noticed a bunch of people using footers as opposed to sinking posts down into the ground. How sturdy is an average size dock using footers? This does seem a little less labor intensive. I am leaning toward sinking my posts, unless someone can talk me out of this.

I guess it depends on what you have at the bottom of the hole. I think my good ol' Georgia clay would support a piling.

i used 5 gal buckets , filled them with rocks and concrete. dug a hole to fit the buckets , filled around the with wet clay and packed them in. the dock is 5 X 25. nice and strong. i wish i would of used PVC 40 instead of treated lumber.

Can you explain why?

We have been kinda kickin' this one around in the "building a pier" thread. Jeff Gaines used concrete piers and set cedar 6 x 6 posts. I started my thinking with setting 6 x 6 treated posts into a post hole at the bottom and filling 'er with concrete...but...I am re-thinking (as I so often do). A major concern is horizontal shear and wracking from not only wind but much more importantly: shifting ice. I really like Jeff's idea of a poured concrete pier at the bottom and then set the post "on top" in a some kinda stainless of galv mounting bracket. To address shear and wracking of the structure above, you would add substantial cross bracing like the old railroad trestles. As of this posting, this is where my little engineering brain is headed. This is basically how I constructed an octagonal gazebo in my backyard...by setting the posts "on top" of the concrete piers. I have a western exposure that is flat and goes forever; it has withstood some killer winds with no wracking issues due to cross braces (4 x 4 ex's) between the 8 corner posts.

Brettski, I had a similar thought regarding posts and shifting ice. I have about a 24 ft wide area on one end of the pond that I want to build a cheap good looking bridge. I have tried to find old beams that could span the 24 ft. but was unable to locate. Then I saw a detail somewhere that showed a 24" diameter CPP stood up on end about 6 feet long. This pipe was dug into the ground about 2 ft. with 2 feet of concrete dumped in the bottom. The 6 x 6 post was set on top of the concrete with the remaining 4 feet of the CPP filled with pea gravel. I should note that the pipe ended up 1 foot abobve the waterline in this detail. This was originally a detail used for a boardwalk over a wetland crossing but I don't see why it wouldn't work in this case. It would seem that the CPP and pea gravel would protect the post from any ice concerns. I haven't built it yet, but someday I hope to.

Fozzy,
Where does the precip that falls in from the top drain off to?

im pretty sure that was Dudley's idea. after i built mine , he posted using PVC. i don't know how he anchored them. i guess the bucket would do the trick. i would drill some holes in the pipe , put rebar through , then fill with concrete. he filled the whole pipe with concrete , left foot or so shy , built the framing , then topped of with concrete. the PVC will last for ever. when i did the drains in my house i used the black pipe. i think that would look a little nicer then white.

Good question Brettski. I was planning on Treated Lumber so I guess I never gave it another thought. I don't know what would happen if water got in there and froze. I would assume that it would expand or contract with everything else, but then again maybe it should be all concrete. The problem with that is weight and cost.

Just drill a few holes in the PVC, below waterline and above concrete. It'll stay whatever the level of the pond is, and what freezes at top will be surrounded by ice...no problem there.

yeah, I think I'm still shootin' for a substantial concrete pier at the bottom and a treated 6 x 6 up from there. My advantage is getting there before the water does.

Just another idea. A few years ago we used 3" square tubing 1/4" thick for our post. We made a driver that would slip over the post that we could drive it into the lake. The driver was made with a handle on each side that we could pick up and let it fall. Kind of like what they use to drive tee post in the ground. After squaring up the sides it made it easer to drill the holes to mount the boards on the sides. A lot easier to clamp to when something is flat rather than round. We have made two docks this way for different members and works well for us. Just another thought.

John :

I use a driver just like the one you mentioned to drive posts (small trees 1-3in. in dia.) into lake bottom to mark brush piles and tie off limbs and xmas trees. We also used them to drive posts to make duck blinds. Work great and are a good work out to use. Ours is steel and is about 30 lbs. ewest

Was it ewest who also had the great idea to set an A-Frame ladder in the water, stand on it and do the driving from there?

I was killing myself trying to drive sign-posts into the water from a boat.

Sunil :

That was me. Like you I noticed that it is easier to use the ladder on bigger jobs in deeper water ( to deep to stand and use driver). On occasion I use a sledge rather than the driver, but not on bigger jobs. The driver works better on them . Working from a boat is not easy with large objects or weights and can be dangerous if cold water is involved. Safety first is a good rule to follow. ewest