Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Georgia Giants VS Crappie !!!!

Greg, thanks. Mostly white crappie? Do you recommend white or black crappie for southern ponds?

I can answer that, Black Crappie. Whites are more prolific, don't grow as large, and are not prized like the Black Crappie.

Also, I do not know a single person that intentionally srocks white crappie...but then I'm in the Souther Region. Black Crappie rule Spring fishing.

I consider the whites more of a pest and harder to manage.

Pomoxis annularis
White crappie
Species Number

Pomoxis annularis Rafinesque, 1818
Family: Centrarchidae (Sunfishes) picture (Poann_u4.jpg) by Lovshin, L.

Map
Order: Perciformes (perch-likes)
Class: Actinopterygii (ray-finned fishes)
FishBase name: White crappie
Max. size: 53.0 cm TL (male/unsexed; Ref. 5723); max. published weight: 2,350 g (Ref. 4699); max. reported age: 10 years
Environment: demersal; freshwater
Climate: temperate; 31.3°C; 40°N - 35°N
Importance: gamefish: yes
Resilience: Medium, minimum population doubling time 1.4 - 4.4 years(Assuming tm=2-4; Fec up to 140,000)


Pomoxis nigromaculatus
Black crappie
Species Number

Pomoxis nigromaculatus (Lesueur, 1829)
Family: Centrarchidae (Sunfishes) picture (Ponig_u7.jpg) by The Native Fish Conservancy

Map
Order: Perciformes (perch-likes)
Class: Actinopterygii (ray-finned fishes)
FishBase name: Black crappie
Max. size: 49.0 cm TL (male/unsexed; Ref. 5723); max. published weight: 2,720 g (Ref. 40637); max. reported age: 15 years
Environment: benthopelagic; freshwater
Climate: temperate; 30.6°C; 52°N - 27°N
Importance: fisheries: commercial; gamefish: yes; aquarium: public aquariums
Resilience: Medium, minimum population doubling time 1.4 - 4.4 years(K=0.11-0.45; tmax=13; Fec=26,700)
Reproductive Habits:
· Mature by age 2
· Spawning occurs around April at 15-20°C
· Nests dug out around vegetation close to other nests Fecundity is 11,000-188,000 eggs per female

eastland and ML, I see more white than black but both seem similiar in my limited expernice about taking over if not in right situation or doing ok if in bass heavy situation. Also we get bigger whites than blacks, not sure about that, I thought they got bigger.
JB, rememebr all those crappie we shocked out of the 100 acre lake in Villa Rica when you and Scott came down?

Willis- I will send and email of the big boy, 275 lbs. 5.5 yr old 138" bow kill buck! Ducks and geese were just ok, sorry I did not have time to make it to SD. I planned on ealry return home but got the buck with 10 mins left on last night, good things do come to those who wait a kid and and great buck, things are great.

Hey Greg, I am going to get you to stock me some crappie this spring...If I can ever get this LAKE filling issue resolved...

Man, Greg! Sounds like you indeed got the big boy! 5.5 is a dandy! Glad you had a good trip.

Sorry Meadowlark...didn't see the questions you'd asked until just now.

We fish the pond perhaps 2 or 3 times in the summer. We'll keep 3 or 4 dozen gills at a whack, and then maybe get into the crappies. We don't take too many of them out...perhaps 25-30 all year.

Ice fishing it's a bit different. Catch mostly gills. We keep all over about 6 inches or so, and the dinks get tossed over the dam for the coons and possums. The crappie are a "primo" ice catch, and we might only get 3 or 4 every time we go out. That's maybe 2 or 3 times a year.

There's another old guy who fishes by himself, and I know he takes a fair number of fish too.

We don't keep any of the CC, as they taste kinda mossy, usually. A few folks have taken some over the years, though. These average 3-5 lbs each now, and we put plenty of them in there initially...over hundred, anyway. We've also put in maybe half a dozen flatheads (don't stone me).

When you catch a bass, they're hard pressed to go over 3 or 4 lbs...and they're skinny.

It seems as though the cats are better predators than the bass. The pond is usually fairly clear, but fairly dark water (tannins from upstream oaks, perhaps?). Most cats caught are healthy, but they've grown pretty slowly.

Obviously, we're predator heavy. However, (and this is pretty much purely accidental, as we had no access to a resource such as PB, back in 1993), we were after good numbers of nice BG and crappies (blacks, BTW). His kids (girls) liked to fish, and my brother and I would rather take home half a dozen schlab crappies than C&R a 5 lb bass.

This is pretty much how I've stocked my own first pond and will stock the second. Bass and CC heavy, lots of gills (but this time I've gotten into some great brood stock, if they breed true) along with some redears and 100 hybrid BG. Tossed in those few eyes for something special.

Anthing else I can add?

Matt,

Just curious, if you are predator heavy, why would you chuck out the smaller bluegill? Why not put them back for more fish food?

ceadmin:

Just always have. Always seem to be plenty of smaller gills. Not all of us do this, but I do and it hasn't seemed to hurt anything. We don't catch tons of smaller fish, but we seldom (in summer, anyway) fish live bait. Mostly just jigs, Road Runners, BeetleSpins, etc. I figure if I'm catching any 3" gills on artificials, there's plenty of them to go around.

In winter, with waxies, I'll usually throw the lil ones back.

In my own ponds, I won't bother doing this until at least next summer (3rd year). I've been catching a few tiny ones (2" or so) but figured they are the just the ones we tossed in from IDNR last fall. They were almost fry-sized, back then.

Matt,

Thanks for the info. I'm just trying to gather data on successful crappie ponds. My only experience with crappie, other than catching them in large lakes, has been in other folks' ponds in which the crappie were stunted and way overpopulated. Several Forum pond meisters have been successful with them, to the point where I'm considering trying them in a yet to be built pond. Thanks again.

ML, I would approach it much like you do GC. Stock lower numbers, you can always add more later. However not sure about TX but hard to find them larger than 3 inches around here so may have to get establihment early before other predator stocking, if that makes sense. It is playing fire and you might get burned but with some knowledge is doable in small pond, I beleive.

Greg,

Do the successful crappie ponds you have seen also have BG?

There was a recent post by Mr. Willy that had an excellent link to a Missouri article that recommended to have a succesful small crappie pond, you should not stock other fish that might "distract" the LMB from keeping the crappie in check. This made a lot of sense to me. It essentially said that to have a good small crappie pond, you needed to have a crappie pond and not a LMB pond with crappie or diverse pond that included crappie. Does that fit your experience?

Matt,

I was thinking about your post and how much your approach seems to match that article that Mr. Willy posted the link on. By removing lots of BG regularly, you may indeed be accomplishing exactly what that article referred to as not "detracting" the LMB away from the crappie, and thus have a very good crappie pond.

Wondering if you would agree with that assessment?

Ml, I do not want to overstep my bounds on this subject. I have almost never shocked a pond without bluegill. I see the point about competetion but the crappie need some forage as well to grow to good size. I maybe simple minded but still think key to large crappie in small pond is keeping it bass heavy to control numbers. I'm not really sure what other effect populaiton dynamics will have. Good luck if you try it!

Greg,

No bounds that I know of...

I've wondered about that also...i.e. the crappie need forage and how would they get it without BG? Maybe that article was saying to keep the BG numbers low (but not zero) and the LMB numbers high as a recipie for a successful small crappie pond. I'm just gathering data, but leaning toward giving it a try in the next pond I build which should be coming on line next spring. A crappie pond would be a nice complement to a trophy BG pond (GG's), an F1 LMB pond, a diverse but HSB centered pond, and a Native LMB pond.

ML, Eastland, who has had long term success, stated in another thread that tilapia and/or golden shiners could be added into the forage mix, as crappie and LMB compete and both have low conversion rates. Then everything eats everything else. Shiners are nest robbers, too.

BM,

Yes I read that...and Eastland has done some amazing things. He seems to be the only case I have run across in which someone has combined all species, especially in which crappie are included, into the same small pond environment and has great fishing from every different type of fish present and balance among all species... heck, he even catches large LMB regularly on lures at a rate exceeding 8 per hour. I'm just not that good. I commend Eastland for his success, but I also know I can't duplicate it.

That is why I've chosen a different approach...an approach which has great diversity across several ponds. For example, I'm targeting a trophy BG pond (with the GG's) and expect it to offer exciting fast fishing to kids (and maybe even an old fart occasionally ). I'm targeting an F1 LMB pond in which I hope to overcome some of the difficulties associated with LMB catchability. In addition, there is a large pond with diverse fishing, but centered on the HSB which are growing at great rates. There is a native LMB pond for just good old fashioned slam bam LMB on very limited fishing pressure.

A crappie pond, that produces respectable crappie, would really complement the overall situation. I hope there is method to my madness...time will tell, but heck for me it's all about the fun of the journey, not the destination, that matters.

Are you sure you dont just like playing with your Tonka toys? You must really enjoy cleaning fish. BTW: seen any WTs yet?

Actually, I told Theo just the other day that there is nothing I enjoy more than sitting on that dozer and clearing out the land for a new pond.

Now, we were having a pleasant conversation....why did you have to go mess it up by reminding of the water turkey's? Actually, I'm kind of like a bear that reacts to stimulus...they look for a place to sleep when cold weather approaches , and I start looking for water turkeys. I would not be at all surprised to see the first one this weekend.

However, our northern scout, James, has yet to report any activity headed our way.

Just dropped my Black Crappies in the drink! ya all are starting to get to me. I had a crazy dream last night, In the dream I went outside to fish in the pond, all the water was gone and in it's place nothing but crappie covering the entire pond, floping around.( I sure hope i'm not seeing the future) I went with a low number around sixty or so, 5" in length in 2.5 ac pond. Greg said it best "you can always add more". I have a well established LMB and BG population, but I am torn as to which direction to go.
My thinking is to go bass heavy and not to cull the young BG, but I do like the idea of thinning them out and leaving the LMB with less options for dinner, steering them towards the young crappie. ML asked what would the crappie eat? I'm guessing the BG would still be on the menu, just not as many.
P.S. Bill Cody found the info on the crappie managment before I did. - Thanks for the good article.

mr willy,

Please keep us informed on how this goes and especially any pond management actions you take, e.g. removing BG or anything else which alters the pond dynamics. I'm really interested in what happens. Thanks.

Just throwing a question out there but...

How about stocking a heavy supply of gambusia minnows in the Spring (a new pond), follow with 3-5" Crappie in the Winter (speaking from our southern months), then adding HSB or LMB the following Spring. The minnows could control mosquito populations while bearing live every 28 days or so through the summer. When the Crappie are introduced in the Winter, a food base will already be established with the minnows (also a bug light would not hurt). Then the bass could also feed on the minnows, but as they age they would dispose of the crappie offspring the following year. It seems the offspring might be a bit more like a Burger King Whopper versus a Krystal Burger (minnows) once the bass get a good size on them. For this example we could leave the BG out of the equation! Just a thought!
Any comments.

Deb

I think you would need a lot more forage; crappie have a big mouth and low conversion rate as a LMB. Golden shiners would have to be in the equation at some point in time.

That might work Deb, the idea is to Possibly have a "Heavy Bass" population FIRST. To keep the Prolific Crappie numbers down. Alot of people put the Crappie in a YEAR later AFTER the Bass population is established.
But your idea COULD work, Especially stocking the minows first.

BM- I have not had alot of experience with the shiners because for the most part we do not offer them (my fish experience as you know is limited to the time I have been here at the hatchery), but you are right about the size of the mouth and the need to feed.
When I posted that suggestion I was drawing off the thoughts of an experiment we did with Ken's Hi-Tech Speck (hybrid crappie). Bass were not in the equation, but Ken placed a number (don't have pond size or fish amount in front of me since I am at home) of hybrid crappie in an experimental pond for one year. He continously added minnows (about 5K per month) and was able to grow them from 2" to 14" in one year. Good looking crappie for a one year project.
That of course would not be financially feasible for this hypothetical experiment so your addition would make since. The main point would be establishing the food chain; minnows (and shiners) to crappie to bass. Result; nice crappie and bass with no mosquito larvae around to pester you while fishing!

Deb