Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Algae, Pondweed, and Chara taking over!

Anyone else notice this with the hot, dry summer we've had this year in the midwest and other areas? My 3/4 acre bass pond is getting inundated with these three weeds like never before. Mostly the algae in conjunction with the Chara. Of course I do have a large fish population and do a lot of feeding, but I can't help believing the weather is playing a big part in this. I lost my algae bloom last fall and have not been able to get it back!

I hate to say it but I'm going to have to break down and start treating the filamentous algae and chara with Cutrine + granular. Never wanted to use any copper products or weed killers, but I seem to have no choice. I have areas where flumes of algae are covering areas of the pond from top to bottom 30 by 10 feet by 8 feet deep areas. I can't even feed the fish anymore on one side of the pier!

Of course I will do small areas of a time to keep oxygen levels from plummeting but this is rediculous! It's 85 degree today with no rain in sight and it's almost the middle of September up here in northern Indiana!

Anybody know if I get these weeds undercontrol I may be able to restart an algae bloom next spring?

Cecil,
I have clients in New York, North Carolina, Alabama, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas. In each of these places, this year has been the toughest one I can remember, trying to keep plants, especially filamentous algae, under control. In NY, Eurasian watermilfoil has been the bigger problem. But, algae has been almost everywhere.

Cecil,

It's not just the Midwest...this is the driest summer I've ever seen in East Texas. The only thing saving me was the wet winter that preceded it. Still, my ponds are at record low levels...and no rain is in sight.

Normally in such conditions, with the high natural fertility I have, I'd be completely overrun with algae. There is not any visible algae in 4 out of 4 ponds...floating or submerged. Not even a trace. Tilapia have worked their magic.

Three out of four ponds have no pondweed at all. The only pond with pondweed, and it is chocked full of it, is my largest pond that was artificially fertilized a year ago last spring. I also lost the grass carp in that pond due to escape during the winter rains. I'm not going to treat it at all until next spring, but will be restoring the grass carp this fall. If I can ever recover from that mistaken fertilizer episode, I'm convinced a steady state, no chemical, equilibrium can be reached...until Nature throws a curve.

Last weekend I noticed floating algae patches on my largest pond. It had obviously broken from the bottom due to hot dry weather. Never happened before. Then we a VERY light rain that knocked most of it down again. The rest of the ponds are about as usual.

One ot the local biologists once told me that in his exp. bad weed years come in cycles. That you would go 3-4 years with little problem and them you would get a crazy growth spurt. He was talking about in his work area not one pond.

To add to the discussion we have had a wet to normal rainfall year with normal temps. In spite of this we have had the worst weed year I remember esp. the FA. One pond that never has FA had a little and another that usualy has some has about 4X its normal even though we have used minor CU treatment. Many of the other ponds in the area have had it much worse as their water temps. avg. 6-8 degrees warmer. ewest

Meadowlark,

If I can get ahold of some tilapia next year I will! I think it's too late in the season now and with my luck I would plant them and boom cold snap!

Hot and dry in north central Texas. Ponds with Tilapia FA not a problem. Ponds without Tilapia FA and chara is a problem. Question--What are the potential problems of adding Tilapia to a small CNBG only brood pond?

Tentmaker :

The tilapia will compete for food with small CNBG which are eating plankton +. See page 2-3 Feeding contained in SRAC site below. If CNBG are on pelletts it may not make much difference if only a few tilapia. But in any event the grow out pond will only hold a set amount of bio-mass without problems. You probably would be ok if you watch it and manage it right. But those tilapia can produce and grow in a hurry so you will have to watch close. ewest

http://aquanic.org/publicat/usda_rac/efs/srac/283fs.pdf

Tilapia would compete for space, and with males and females spawning in a bluegill pond you'd end up with lots of tilapia. If you are harvesting this pond anyway every fall or so to supplement elsewhere, you'll find that this is a perfect scenario. Stock tilapia in early June and raise more fish per acre than with bluegill or tilapia alone. Then tilapia die in winter and you'll have bluegill left over to spawn in the spring before adding more brooder tilapia.

Have ML send over some of them crazy Texas 'coons to clean up the mess when they die.

Bruce, I would surmise that ML's tilapia demise pretty well coincides with the fall water turkey season. Without a plentiful supply of dying tilapia, they would probably pass him by. Then, I figure they wait until his spring tilapia planting to head North. The scout birds signal the rest and they stopover and get enough protien to make it North for the summer. They probably have their own forum set up to talk about their space cadet benefactor in Texas.

This has been a very bad year for both filamentous algae and chara in this part of Virginia (Rockbridge County). And a fellow I know has had bad watermeal problems with his pond this year as well.
We've had an unusually hot and humid summer. But perhaps the big difference from last year is the night-time low temperatures. A weather writer in the Roanoke TIMES noted that the average night-time low temperatures this summer were a full four degrees warmer than the summer of 2004 -- quite a difference.
Since I have trout in my small spring-fed pond (they've made it through so far!), I've tried to avoid copper-based algaecides and started with a non-copper treatment called GreenClean ... just tried a small test area on my pond today and will see how it works out. Also had to break down and apply a colorant to my pond in mid-August just to slow up the chara.

TM,

Only problem I see is if there is no predator in the pond, then by the end of the season you will have lots of small Tilapia die....and provide sustenance for the Texas clean-up crews (thats the masked bandits that Bruce refers to ). I have seen no evidence, no evidence at all of Tilapia competing with BG or harming BG in any way, in fact quite the opposite.

p.s. Dave, I had water turkeys long before discovering Tilapia...I seem to attract them wherever I go.

Cecil,

As stated by everyone else here we are in a very bad year for FA and pond weeds. Many of the ponds in our area that made my envy glow are just ravaged by some sort of growth this year. I am not saying all but many of them. I have very little FA but this is the first year I have experienced it here. Although this is the first year for my pond with no duckweed. My father in laws pond is heavily covered in weeds this year (kendallville). He went through his annual chemical dosing and he still has weeds terribly. He has cattails growing like crazy! In short our area is seeing a very bad year for unwanted growth. Its not just you.

Interesting,
My pond in middle Tennessee was probably 2/3rds covered with FA in mid June. However, by mid July it was all gone and has stayed that way ever since.

The most FA I've had this year was a 3"-4" strip around most of the outside of the pond when the water level was the lowest, just before we got the rain from Katrina. Since then, none visible.

But my mysterious FA-free 2005 pond is very atypical for this area. Most of the neighboring ponds seem to have a bumper crop of FA this year.

Question guys. I understand there are two types of Tilapia. One is sterial and the other is not is this true? Second question is there any state regulations about putting Tilapia in a lake? Our overflow of the lake will eventually wind up in the Ohio river.

John,

I'm not aware of a sterile Tilapia and even if there was one it would be almost worthless. The beauty of Tilapia is that they reproduce like rabbits and they die off each year in temps below about 55 degrees. Because they die off, you do not have to worry about them escaping and populating rivers and lakes, in most regions of this country....exceptions being south Florida, south Texas and water that is heated such as power plant lakes.

As to types of Tilapia, there are several. In Texas we can legally stock the Mozambique Tilapia. Other locations have Nile or Blue Tilapia. Check your local state regulations for what is allowed.

Meadowlark,

I have a book "Small Scale Aquaculture that talks about producing talapia offspring in an aquarium and then introducing them into an RAS (Recirulating Aquaculture System) Seems to indicate it's not hard to do.

What would you think of either producing your own fry in an aquarium or tank or seining out fry from the pond in summer? Then either growing them out in a tank until hey are big enough to escape predation or putting then into a cage until they are big enough? Or as an alternative producing thousands of fry than allowing for some predation?

ML, I could lend you the book if you're interested.

Bruce

Cecil and Bruce,

I ordered that book some time back based on a previous recommendation by Cecil. Thank you again Cecil and thank you Bruce for the offer.

Nothing I would like to do more than try that. After reading the book, I wasn't sure it would be that easy. In addition, another problem I have is splitting time between residences...that would make it difficult to check on the fish daily, but I might be able to make some arrangements in that regard.

I guess it comes down to where there's a will there's a way...and I would most definitely love to find a way. Maybe I just need a very large aquarium.

Chara didn't start until late July but really took off when the temps went to 100+. I have scooped up over 4 yards and put in my compost pile for the garden. The veggies love it.

Still waiting on some rain.

The weed growth in my pond is so heavy that I am afraid to take my labrador retriever for a visit. I fear him swimming out there and getting so hung up in the weeds that he gets caught. This is my third summer for the pond and by far the worst for weeds.

Just a thought, I hope it is not tooo radical. If folk try to 'push' the fish numbers and size up, by stocking lots of fish, and feeding them perhaps a bit on the heavy side, is it any surprise the algae and the aquatic plants are going to be the main recipient of all the 'trickle down' of fertile stuff going into the pond?

I couldn't imagine a better way to encourage the green stuff, then feeding fish heavily.

If you want to reduce the plant growth, perhaps culling fish and cutting down fertile 'inputs' would result in fewer, but bigger fish and clearer waters...

regards, andy
http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

Andy,

I don't dispute that "heavy feeding" results in an explosion of algae and aquatic weeds, and I admitted that in my first post. However I have never seen it this bad, and have actually had a higher density of fish in the past. I have to think the atypical summer weather of lots of sun with little rainfall is a factor.

But then again we all know as aquatic vegetation builds up and dies off it offers fuel for the next crop and it may be a situation where it will become worse year after year. I plan on draining the pond and starting over in a year or two anyway when I harvest this crop of largemouths.

BTW I grow out my fish and sell them to other taxidermists and taxidermy schools so culling them before they are up the size is not an option.