Even though I do not like to try to speak for someone else I will try to set out a few of the points Dr. Gary Garrett of TPW made in a conversation regarding the topic of this thread.

I explained the points we were discussing as they related to the several papers and articles he has written on his research.

He has been very busy and may post later. I hope he does and corrects any error I may make in relating the conversation.ML sent him an email that we both hope he will answer and if so it will be posted. Thanks for the help on this matter.

Most of his points were included in the papers. Each point needs to be read and thought about and allowed to sink in before going to the next point. I read the articles several times and did not get the full effect of the points until I talked to him.

1. Fishing with resultant harvest creates selective pressure for wariness in fish.

2.Some fish are more prone to be caught and they are the ones removed by both fishermen keeping them or by natural mortality associated with catch and release fishing. Thus leaving a higher % of wary fish either by learning or genetics.

3.LMB are rapid learners particularly when negative stimuli such as artificial lures are involved.

4.There is a genetic link to angling vulnerability -- difference between Fla. strain and northern strain.

5. There is evidence this applies to other sunfish (BG, RE etc.) as per studies that show that hybrid sunfish are more aggressive and more vulnerable than either parent species.

6.Catchability (vulnerability) can be manipulated by selective breeding.

7. This manipulation runs on a sliding scale based on the amount of vulnerabile fish genes in the population. A pond with 80% northern LMB genes will have a higher catch rate than one with 40%.

8. Use the goals of the owner to set and then adjust the % Fla. or Northern or F1 genes to get the catch rate wanted. We used 87% northern genes and 13% Fla. genes +- in a TX Resv. because we wanted high catch rates for the public while still retaining a chance for a trophy. Much lower rates of northern genes ( 20%) will still have a measurable effect on catch rates but they will be much less than with 80%.

9.TPW used triploid Fla. LMB in several of its studies which are not available to the public. Several of the studies on these matters are still ongoing in TX lakes and more info will soon be available.

10. There is a range of vulnerability within each subspecies but there is a bigger difference between the 2 subspecies.

11. Remember that BOTH types of LMB learn quickly ( a major point)-- so that catch rates go down a lot over the first fishing days on each of our test ponds. This is like the " opening day effect" on new resv. high catch rates drop off quickly.

12. Vulnerable fish were caught multiple times during the survey while some fish were never caught.

That is enough for now. If I think of more points I will include them in a later post. ewest