Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat Rock Ledge for crayfish and baitfish

Hello Everyone - I'm a newer member, but I have been reading the board for awhile. I have a few questions that hopefully folks can chime in on.

My largest pond is right at 4 acres and has been around 35-40 years. I have owned the property for about 5 years and I'm looking to improve the habitat and forage. The pond was built in a ravine and is 36' deep in the middle. The pond has plenty of LMB and BG, but I haven't seen any other species. Neither the LMB or BG seem to grow very big. The pond is located in Eastern Kentucky.



1. My first question is regarding a rock ledge. I have about 70 tons of Class 3 rock that I'm hoping will make a 160' rock ledge (red line on left of pond). I'm figuring 3'-4' wide by 2'-3' high. I was thinking the top of the ledge would be about 12" below the water. Other than a few weeks in late summer, the pond pretty much stays full. About 8" is the most I've ever seen it down. Does the 12" below the surface sound about right?




2. I plan to add crayfish to the pond next Spring. I am leaning towards the Northern Virile, but I've read some good things on the papershell. Does anyone have a strong preference either way?

3. Spawning Beds: I have a shallow bench about 15" deep the whole length of the dam. I was thinking it would make a good spawning area. Pea gravel is no where to be found in this part of Kentucky, but #8 crushed limestone (1/4") is readily available. Would the crushed limestone work or would I be wasting money?



Thanks in advance for any replies.

Beautiful pond!

Welcome to Pond Boss!!! Your pond looks awesome.

On Question 1, I would maybe have some areas where the rocks are 12" below the water surface, but more areas in the 18-24" below surface range.

Does anyone do recreational activities on the pond without you? A giant rock ledge just 12" below the surface might be a boat killer, dangerous to a falling paddleboarder, break the hand of a swimmer, etc.

I agree that the value of a rock ledge is that it gives you "habitat" on two sides. However, that is going to take a lot of rock! Is 70 tons enough to make 160' of ledge?

I suspect that you have very little wave erosion of the shoreline with your pond in a tree-lined valley. However, stopping wave erosion is a consideration for most pond owners. You might consider installing your rock on a few banks and running it up to just above your normal water level. That would only take a single layer of rock, and you could run it all of the way down to 6-8' below the surface where the bank slope easily allows that. Your crayfish, insects, and baitfish could then each find the depth they consider optimal. Also, your "rocked" areas will then be visible to anglers and anybody else on the pond.

Finally, every pond is different. There is a lot of value in experimenting in YOUR pond. Do part of the work in a few different niches of the pond, and then see which areas produce the best results. Copy more of that distribution of rocks the next year. (Unless of course you are renting heavy equipment for a one-time installation of your rock. In that case, probably better to minimize your costs and use the savings for other pond improvements.)

As regards your fish populations, a 35-40 year old pond has almost certainly lost nearly all of its "non-rock" cover. In addition to spawning beds, the forage fish need some dense cover for hiding, and your LMB need some different cover for their ambushes. In the satellite view it looks like you may have felled some trees into the water? If so, that is certainly a good start IMO.

Are you going to draw down the pond to install your rock ledge and spawning beds? That would be a good time to add some other types of cover as well.

Have you downloaded a relative weight chart for largemouth bass? That is one of the easiest ways to get some valuable information about the health of your bass population and by inference some info on your BG population. The lack of big bass suggests you may have too many LMB in your pond. More spawning habitat is NOT the solution to that problem.

If you keep weight and length catch records, there are some serious experts on the forum that can help analyze your population.

Congrats on your "new-ish" property and beautiful pond. I hope you enjoy creating your pond improvements, and then enjoy even more your better fishing results!

Welcome to PB posting.

For BG beds

" In Role of Male Parental Care in Survival of Larval Bluegills by Mark B. Bain and Louis A. Helfrich in Transactions of the American Fisheries Society 112: 47-52, 1983 the authors noted optimum Bluegill nest materials were exposed coarse gravel ( 8-32 mm diameter) and pebbles (32-64 mm) in nest substrate and that Bluegill removed particles smaller than 2 mm. Particles larger than 8 mm provided suitable interstitial space to accommodate bluegill larvae. Survival of larvae was directly correlated with the proportion of coarse substrate in the nest."

Rock ledge

IMO several rock piles (bottom to near surface) are better than a ledge.

Craws

Check to see what is natural (and allowed) in your area. They like rock piles and especially limestone.

I love it!

I put a lot of rock on the north side of our pond to counter erosion. Came from our basement dig and from a local town that needed a place to dump rubble while doing a city wide plumbing renovation. They brought me load, after load, after of stone. A lot of stone doesn't go very far!


To your question about crayfish... I'm positive I created a lot of habitat for them, and I catch a ton of bass with crawfish in them during the summer months. But to be honest all the bass that have had crawfish in them were caught in the coontail. The crawdads are getting nailed while they are out eating the vegetation. Point of the story, do you have food for your crawfish to eat? Might be as important as the living-quarters you're getting ready to provide.

Thanks Zep - It's one of the features that sold me on the property.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll give a few more details. When I bought the property, I had to rebuild the spillway and road on SE part of the dam. The previous owner (a corperation) did nothing with the pond. A beaver family set up camp and blocked the spillway which lead to erotion on road. When I rebuilt the spillway, I also raised the pond about 3 feet. That's where the flooded timber you see in the picture came from.
I'm a little constrained on where I can put the rock due to the steepness, but I'll look around a little more to see where I can place some smaller piles. As for swimming, I plan to put a dock pretty much in the middle of the dam where there is absolutely nothing in the way.

That was a good move right there. Made the pond deeper, bigger, and added structure! Even the terrestrial plants on the shoreline you drowned will provide some cover for baitfish for a few months.

How are you going to install the rock? I suspect an old pond will have a fairly soft bottom. If you grabbed a load of your biggest rocks you might be able to create a bit of a slope "anchor" by dropping it straight down at the maximum design depth of your rockpile. For example, if you drop a load in 6' of water and then work your loads up the slope to your minimum design depth, that might(?) be stable on a moderately steep slope.

I'm still working out some of the details. I don't plan to lower the pond so I won't be as precise on placement as I'd like. Neighbor has an excavator with about 24' reach so we'll to work in those limits.

In my experience, massive amounts of horsepower is the best way to move rocks!