Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding Where are my HSB?

(1/4 pond Middle TN) So....last couple weeks w/temps in the 60's/70's, even a couple days in the 80's-- I restarted feeding (upcoming weather predictions are mixed; I'll adjust daily as we approach spring. Next week supposed to dip into high 20's, so we'll see.) SBS and forage fish hitting the feed hard, but I have seen no sign of the dozen HSB 5-7" I stocked at the end of Oct. No sign of any die-off. I assume I'll start seeing them with the arrival of full-on spring next month?

IMO - In early spring when your SBS and other forage species are eating pellets well, the HBS should also be coming to eat pellets. HSB may not yet be eating aggressively due to early spring temps. Did you see the HSB aggressively eating pellets before winter arrived??? This is an important point. Important due to them knowing where the feeding station was located and who as surviving.

It is very possible, almost a guarantee, that all HSB survivors will sooner than later return to the feeding station. Eating pellets is very easy food items and HSB 5"-7" long should be well habituated to pellets. That is all they have ever eaten. If you don't see any sign of HSB feeding by end of April after the prior Fall stocking, I would buy some more. Then when you see plenty of them feeding and growing - invite some of the excess ones as dinner guests.

I have seen instances where all the newly stocked HSB died within a few to several weeks after stocking. Dead fish do not always float. Dead fish do not always float. Again - dead fish do not always float.

FYI -- Once your pond has reached Carrying Capacity and depending on the life spans of species present, about 20 -30% of them die of natural deaths / mortality EACH year. So after the pond is about 5-6-7 years old about 25% of the community dies as losses each year weather you harvest them or not. Where do they go? Well dead fish do not always float.

One thoughtful PB member here claims when BG-LMB ponds are at carrying capacity LMB will not grow unless some of them die to create "space"(room) and then enough food for any new added LMB growth. Interesting concept that is very likely true IMO.

Deaths from stocking are almost always due to the many stressor events from grower or producer harvest, grower holding, next step transportation to retailer, holding conditions at the retailer seller, tank harvest again and final transport to the pond. HSB due producer suggestions, are held in high salt concentrations to minimize fungal growths. It seems stressed HSB are pretty vulnerable to funngal infections. If HSB are not carefully temperature tempered and salt concentration tempered from high salt to regular fresh water that is a big stressor. Don't ask why I know this! There are many stress event conditions on that fish before you get them. The buyer never sees how many died prior to them getting the final stocker fish. Number losses can sometimes can be significant. It all depends. Some fish retailers, like doctors are much better than others. Just because they are doing it does not mean they are best in class.

In my experience stocking fish is always "risk management". Numerous hidden factors to consider.

AI says this about how much of the adult fish community dies each year.
In a typical pond or lake, it is normal for 25% to 50% of the adult fish population to die each year from natural causes.

While this might seem high, these deaths usually occur gradually throughout the year, meaning you rarely see many dead fish because they are quickly consumed by scavengers like turtles and crayfish or decompose on the bottom.

Key Mortality Factors
The number of fish that die depends on several factors, including the species and the environment:

Species Differences: Smaller, shorter-lived species often have much higher mortality rates. For example, some black crappie populations can have an annual mortality rate as high as 70%, whereas larger fish like largemouth bass might average around 30%.

Natural Causes: The majority of adult fish deaths are "natural," caused by:
Predation from birds (like cormorants) or larger predatory fish.

Environmental Stress, such as rapid temperature changes or low oxygen levels (hypoxia).

Spawning Stress, which weakens fish in the spring and makes them more prone to disease.

Human Impact: Fishing adds to the total death rate.

Harvest: In managed ponds, experts often recommend harvesting a set amount (e.g., ~10 lbs of bass per acre) to keep the population healthy. Cody note: healthy and growing well. Undue crowding stifles growth rates.

Catch-and-Release: Even if released, roughly 15% to 18% of fish may die later due to "delayed mortality" from handling stress or deep hooking.

Well, that's interesting information......I don't doubt the mortality prognosis at all; I'm new to this- only had fish in the pond for ~a year, so I don't have any established patterns as yet....just have to rely on what I observe.

So...you're saying dead fish don't always float.....? :-) Understood. Just fwiw: I don't have turtles, crayfish, cormorants, large predator fish, etc. etc. So...not sure what would consume dead fish; maybe just natural decomposition? I don't kid myself at all that something from the sky or woods can figure out how to snatch fish from the pond; just haven't observed anything like that as yet. Also, a local friend says that turtles in the area (inc. snapping turtles), will eventually be drawn to the pond naturally....we'll see....

The HSB were stocked Oct. 25, and I stopped feeding soon after, therefore I observed ZERO HSB feeding at all during that short period. I'll keep my eyes open for them as I continue to feed, but they are fairly distinctive looks-wise, so there shouldn't be much confusion if an HSB comes to the surface. I find it difficult to believe that ALL the stocked HSB would die off right away and I'd never see them.....but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I will take your advice: watch carefully between now and end of April, and if none show up, I'll restock the HSB.

Bill, I don' t use it but a friend regularly uses AI for answers. He's found out that while he might get answers, he has to re-define the question or "parameters" to get a correct answer.

I'm wondering when AI says "Species Differences: Smaller, shorter-lived species often have much higher mortality rates. For example, some black crappie populations can have an annual mortality rate as high as 70%, whereas larger fish like largemouth bass might average around 30%", what size fish of what species are they basing that observation off of? If they are just talking about adult fish, at what size do they consider a fish to be an adult? Are fish that may be "sick" or "dying a slow death" that are caught and consumed by predators in that % of mortality? Or are they just counting fish that die and are not consumed before they die in that figure?

BJ Nick. Just an fyi, I stocked HSB 12 years ago. Caught one a few years ago. Restocked again. Caught one of those. I think I remember reading somewhere that HSB are pretty sensitive to some ph levels. I think my pond has one of those ph levels. Our SMB, RES, and Golden Shiners have done well. Our YP have just done ok..

FWIW, I stocked HSB in my pond in September ‘23 caught the first one the following May, didn’t see another one until September ‘24 where I caught 5 of them. I caught 1 in all of ‘25, now we are in March ‘26 where I have caught 7 of them in the last 3 weeks.
The first year I thought most were gone. They are definitely feeding as I can hear the huge splash but no visible sign because they are so far out in the water column. They are also growing at an enormous rate so they have to be feeding on pellets along with their shiner forage. If you are feeding MVP or a food that partially sinks my guess is they are taking the sinking food

I don't get it. I responded yesterday, but my response is not here.....? Anyway: thank you for comments. I did find an HSB floating yesterday, ~7" (pic attached.) I think I'll follow Bill's advice and wait till end of April; if I don't see evidence of any more, I'll restock and try again.

Darn!

Here's a follow-up question, since it's pretty obvious that the HSB are most likely gone to eternal pastures....if I opt to restock May 2 (the next local date for Jones in Nashville past April 2), should I get all 3-4" or 5-7", or maybe a couple larger ones (they have up to 10-11".) Is there any reason/value in getting a couple different sizes? Note: if I did that, I would get two of obviously different sizes, like 3-4" and 10-11"; otherwise it would be confusing to judge growth rates.
So anyway, that's my question. I'm guessing I'll be told to just get all in the smaller sizes....but I look forward to hearing the response on this.

The larger sizes are less susceptible to transport stress. If you stock 2 different sizes, Just clip a pelvic fin off of each size. For instance, left one on one size and the right one on the other size. That way you can track growth rates.

That's a good idea, but in my case I'm going to go for a few each of the 3-4" and the 8-10", so it will be pretty obvious which is which in a 1/4 acre pond where all feed will be consistent among them.
Another quick question: any reason why I can't add a little variety by getting some Rosy Red Minnows as well? I know they also spawn prolifically so I thought be fun to add some to the mix, especially with the HSB coming in "at size" pretty much.

You could.

BJ...I had the exact same question...where are my HSB! I have stocked a few hybrid stripers every 2-3 years. Never saw or caught any the first year or two. After that caught 1-2 maybe a few times a year. Now we catch them more often and we see them at the feeder. We usually catch them on large and small minnows, and sometimes on a lure. George would be upset I haven't tried flies yet. Not sure what changed, but I was worried they had been eaten by otters or disappeared.

They look nice! I could just do it the easy way and get LMB / BG, but I have this idea of it being a real swimming pond as well, thus the need to do things differently. But I can always change my mind....

One more question: is there any downside to the triploid grass carp to take care of algae? Got a whole bunch coming up right now....

I believe the carp will eat almost any OTHER bit of plant matter before they will eat the algae.

Tilapia are the big algae eaters. You might check to see if they are legal in your area. If so, then read some of the tilapia threads to see how they will do in your pond.

You might have the optimal situation where they will spawn a few times and then die off in the winter, so you have complete control of the species.

I haven't heard that about the carp......but of course they do have the advantage of NOT dying off in winter.....still, I would consider Tilapia; why not?

Here in Indiana I stock 6"-9" Tilapia in late May - early June. That's when the water temps are consistently in the upper 60's and climbing. I will usually see a few Tilapia beds around the full moon in late June, then more in July/Aug/Sept. I can never source enough to sell in late May/June. I could get plenty of 90% male food grade fish, but I have learned from experience that they don't do as good of a job controlling algae as the 50/50 M/F mix that I get now.

Interesting.....friend did point out, though, that I don't have any other plant life competing with the algae......we have a 14,000 sq. ft. pond liner plus a foot of gravel covering every inch of the pond. Does that change the equation at all? The carp would get plenty of algae but little else. Note: yes, tilapia are legal here in TN; easy to get from Jones Lake mgmt.

The TGC will eat some of the algae then, given your situation. They will also be rooting around in the pond bottom to see what they can find to eat if there are no plants. Having some plants will help with the FA problem, so getting plants established will be impossible if the TGC are in there. Find out from Jones the % of male/female Tilapia.that they sell.

Update: few weeks into Spring now....the big floating piles of FA are largely gone, mainly from me spending some of time w/a pool net (not that bad, really, not HOURS or anything like that.) 1I got a couple TGC (about 10" and we'll see how they do. I'd love to have some good pond vegetation, but like I've said, there is minimal soil down there.....maybe 8"-1' most places on the bottom, plus of course leaves. etc. will add to that. Not sure if the Tilapia are worth it, seeing as how the recommended amounts seem like going to a lot of expense for not that much benefit (1/4 acre pond Middle TN, Tilapia would die off by Nov. every year, and recommendations I've seen are like ~20 of them!)

Soil bottom of 8"-1ft is plenty of substrate for rooted vegetation to grow well. Now with a couple of TGC,, you will not get any vegetation established in the pond. TGC will anything except FA that tries to grow. TGC will not eat that FA that you were dipping out with the net.

The big benefit of the tilapia is FA consumption and they will eat a lot of the FA and turn a significant amount of it into a large fish biomass so you can remove those nutrients that grew that FA out of the pond. Chemical addition does not do that. Ponds are nutrient accumulators and it is the wisest manager that removes some pond nutrients each year. You also did that prior using the Pool Net removal method.

Regarding the HSB and survivability/visibility:

We stocked 100 8-10"HSB in in our 11 acre pond back in early June '25. I did not see them again, feeding or otherwise, until late September and they were regulars through the fall until we stopped feeding. Their feeder activity ramped up as the bluegill and bass activity at the feeder slowed and was quick to start up again when we started feeding again in march. I would expect their feeding to slow as it gets warmer and they seek deeper, cooler water. We only observe them feeding at one of our three feeders. This feeder has the most direct access to the 1-2 acres of very deep (25-40ft), open water by the dam so I imagine they spend most of their time in that part of the pond.

HSB can/will feed at lower water temps than BG and LMB. Keep that in mind when timing HSB feeding. Also know that unlike LMB and BG, HSB can metabolize carbs in fish food so they can (usually don't in pond enviros) get morbidly obese on high vols of fish food.