Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Hybrid Black Crappie vs Bass in new Pond

Visibility is still a good 24" in the pond. It's their only pond.

I am working on couple fish stocking options based on the main use goal for this swim recreation pond. Stay tuned. All this posting of ideas and typing to present it takes time that is now in short supply for my scheduling.

Firstly for other “fish squeezers" here to provide some helpful ideas,, tell us what the SIZES were and WHEN the YP were added from the fish farm. I am trying to calculate when the YP spawn would have or will occur. Normally the RES stocked from your supplier are RES 2”-4”.

The fish were added last spring (2025) - probably the end of April or beginning of May. The RES and YP were both 2-4" with the YP maybe a little larger.

Fish Existing Stock -

You will NOT buy hybrid crappie anywhere in Ohio.

For yellow perch of 2”-4” stocked in Apr-May 2025 at 100/acre into a new pond, growth of some will be 6”to 8” long after one year and definitely capable of spawning and producing a 2026 crop of YP. I have seen 5" YP with eggs. For RES added in Spring of 2025 there can easily be new RES produced in 2026.

You will very rarely find SMB at your current fish provider - Remlinger. I am in a co-op with Remlinger thus I am quite familiar with their Farm activities. Only on very rare occasions do they sell SMB. SMB are very hard to find for sale about anywhere during Spring fish sales – when SMB are rarely available they usually sell out in Fall. SMB are easier to find in Fall but still difficult to locate for a Fall stocking. Usually stocking SMB with YP and RES often leads to good reproduction and good survival of young SMB. SMB when reproducing and young smallies are recruited they can eventually deplete YP populations when good habitat is lacking.

After several years of reproduction and the lack of adequate SMB harvest, reproduction, recruitment and initial adult SMB they as a popu9lation will IMO soon over eat (deplete) all the FHM and then they usually resort to eating about all the young survivors of YP and RES WHEN no cover nor weeds are present. Thus after the original stocked YP and RES die of old age (7-9yrs) , SMB then become the remaining main fish in the pond. I have seen this happen in ponds similar to your plan. At this point it is difficult and costly to rebuild the forage food base for an existing overabundant SMB population. HOWEVER - SMB by themselves in a pond can create a good casual fishing pond for some good, active catch rates for anglers. However sizes of SMB will usually be 8”-12” long based on the numbers of SMB present. This type of fishery would be similar to that of LMB by themselves in a pond - see later.

Other insightful PB forum members here are as usual also ARE very welcome to provide some of their ideas for a successful swimming / fishery pond with existing FHM, YP and RES .

Option 1
If it were my swimming type pond and for the least amount of needed efforts and fishery management, I would stock in Spring 2026 8-10 lbs of golden shiner AND 40-50 maybe 60 Hybrid Striped Bass HSB (13-20/ac) of 6”-8” as a preferred size for their better chance of survival. That size HSB are almost only available in Spring from your current provider. Initially stocking more HSB numbers than 40-60 in 2026 will IMO more likely and quickly lead to a eventual depletion (in 4-5yr) about all small fish as each HSB grows bigger and each year each eats more and more of the small newly produced YP & RES. No cover nor habitat allows HSB 50-60 HSB (16-20/ac) to eventually and effectively capture all edible small fish. This does depend on conditions.

The addition of 10 lbs of golden shiner (GS) will hopefully delay the eventual depletion of YP/RES as old original stockers die of old age and natural and angler mortalities.

RES are not prolific spawners, they usually say in deep water and are ‘tricky’ for the novice anglers to catch. It is a good probably you never catch or see RES in a mainly swimming pond that has adequate or strong predatory pressure. Again it does depend.

I would not wait until 2027 to stock HSB because during the then 2 years of reproduction from YP and RES as they would / could become IMO TOO abundant after 2 years of spawning and the 40-60 HSB would maybe not adequately decrease numbers of those abundant now juvenile size 5”-6” YP and RES enough to create as good of a ‘higher’ quality fishery. IMO the fishery would then be IMO substandard. You can wait until 2027 to stock the HSB but the chance of an over population of primarily smaller sizes of YP / RES is more likely to occur.

Rarely, it can happen in unique conditions, but if over the time of 4-6 years and the YP are or become very numerous Without Pellet Feeding , using the HSB as only predator and the anglers are very rarely catching 10”-12” YP, then you could add another stocking of HSB of 15-21 (5 -7/ac). This is called ‘ladder stocking’. This will then increase the predatory pressure upon the young YP and allow remaining YP to better grow to larger sizes of 10”-13”. RES from several experiences the RES are said to rarely ever become over abundant whenever hungry, predators present.

Option 2.
Ladder stock the HSB by first in Spring 2026 stocking just 26 – 33 HSB(8-11/ac) with the golden shiners. Watch the results of their resulting growths AND the numbers and sizes of YP&RES that anglers are catching. If after 3 - 4 years AND most of the YP are only 6”-8” long, and not 9”-10” long then stock another 10 to 15 HSB (4-5/ac) for a total of around 50 HSB / acre.

Option 3.
Using LMB as the predator with YP and no habitat /cover, the reproducing LMB quickly in several years eliminate young , juvenile YP and RES from the community.
This is not an all bad of a situation for a mainly swim pond. Having just LMB / SMB in a swim pond often, but not always, results in more clear water conditions due to a type of cascade management. LMB or SMB can easily exist by themselves in a pond, they just will not grow bigger than 12”-13” by mainly utilizing their reproduction and invertebrates as the main food source.
At this point in pond history with just mainly LMB or SMB present you could add crappie. This would be a backup stocking plan using crappie with the LMB after they have become very well established as 8”-12” bass and when YP-RES are not present in angler catches. This provides a reproducing panfish that chances are quite good they probably will NOT overpopulate due presence of a strong reproducing population of 8”-12” aggressive LMB as predators. However this plan with crappie could be doable but it is a risky gamble and would not be my preferred form of fishery. In this plan, Crappie would not have minnow forages as foods except for occasionally some small fingerling bass. This is because the over abunndant LMB have decimated the forage fishes. However,,, having low numbers of crappie per acre, they can survive and grow quite well by primarily utilizing the Crustacean zooplankton as their main food source that usually results from an annual presence of a strong population of LMB as just smaller LMB (8”-13”)..

Whichever or combination of stocking option you chose, it would be very beneficial for all readers here and even new PBoss Forum pond owners, if you could periodically return with updates of the progress of your 3 acre swim and fish pond. Whatever fish stocking plan you decide to use and how it develops over time will be very educational for all those interested.

Questions are welcome.

Bill:

Hybrid Crappie would be available in Ohio, but only at Shelby Fish Farm, and only if Steve asks me to bring him some this Fall, AND I can get them. Three BIG IFs. They are sometimes available in the Spring on a limited basis, but I have no control over that. I was able to get Hybrid Crappie this past Fall, but it was like pulling teeth. I had an order in place to pick up, then when I called to confirm, they told me that they lost the fish in the holding tank and had to seine more, but they'd be a different size than what I had ordered.

I have had issues with that particular supplier not sorting his fish, and I have had mixed species when there was not supposed to be different species in the mix. I was able to also get Specklebelly Sunfish from the same supplier. The first order that I picked up was as ordered, the 2nd order had a considerable amount of Bluegill mixed in with them. At the time that I picked them up, they were small and you could not distinguish between species. I just found out about the mixed species last week.

SMB to my knowledge are only available from one supplier in Dorr, Michigan, and Jadog would have to drive up there to get them, or maybe this Fall I would be able to get them if enough customers need them. With the current price of diesel, and what transporting fish cost now, it gets expensive. Bagging fish for transport is iffy when travel times exceed 2 hours and there is no guarantee of the fish arriving alive at the pond once the customer leaves the hatchery.

I just received a fish price sheet from Laggis. They have a $300 minimum delivery charge, and they charge $4/mile one way for delivery. Laggis did not have SMB listed as being available. His daughter is taking over the business and this is the first year she's running the show.

Harvesting fish from the pond is a very important part of pond management, and people that don't harvest enough fish usually end up with ponds with stunted fish.

Cody Note - Laggis before he retired dependably had SMB. The farm no longer having them made them even harder to locate and buy.

I like and have seen good success with the -- SMB/RES/YP option. This plan has worked well especially when the SMB numbers were started on the low end (extends longevity of initial forage numbers). You also have good options down the road for adding GSH and or walleye or HSB. Feeding makes this plan easier to continue good management.

Hybrid black crappie (HBCP) and Smallmouth SMB comments for all PB Forum readers who are following this Swim Pond thread.
As noted by esshup HBCP are available on a very limited basis. I did not suggest their use for Jdog's swim pond due to their unusual rarity and difficulty of buying HBCP when one is in NE Indiana; plus I doubt that Jdog's current fish supplier even knows that HBCP exist. I do know they have never sold HBCP.

SMB use for the goals of Jdog's unique swim pond. As aptly noted by "esshup and ewest" - Yes smallmouth can with some watchful fishery management perform very well with perch(YP) and redears (RES). Literature says - SMB can even perform "better" when stocked just by themselves when compared to largemouth (LMB) stocked by themselves. However since SMB are so hard to locate and then to buy them WHEN they are BEST needed for a primarily swim pond, I doubt Jdog will go to the all the extra effort and extra expense needed to get smallmouth for his swim pond,,,,,, when the HSB will function well and are commonly available from his current fish supplier. HSB are a very good option for Jdog's goals of mainly a swim pond and for casual angling. Note that when desired,, HSB and SMB are compatible when they are stocked timely together.

Usually,,, all fish stocked into ponds and even the Largemouth and Bluegill combo when stocked into ponds also should have good management to get the good and the best fish qualities of ones goals. As we frequently talk about here, just stocking and forgetting any fish combination often results in just average fisheries and does not produce a high quality fishery for ones initial goals of Premium angling experiences .

So if I choose HSB rather than SMB, I will need to continue adding more in future years because the do no reproduce, correct? Whereas SMB will and I would only need to keep them balanced by monitoring the size of the fish and reducing or increasing the initial stock. Or is this thought incorrect?

If it hasn't been mentioned, you will need to add (and maintain, IME) spawning beds for SMB if you want them to reproduce.

Both Jadog's and Theo's comments are correct. Less maintenance is required for the SMB spawning beds if the pallets used are plastic vs. wood.

From the archives – very good SMB info


https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=103428#Post103428 SMB Discussions - Northern Ponds

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92626#Post92626 SMB Spawning Bed Preparation

Frequency of ladder stocking of HSB has not been very well established nor the frequency firmly designated. IMO adding more HSB to an existing thriving HSB group would I think not need to be done more often than every 6 to 10 years. I have seen HSB live in our northern ponds for close to 20 years life span. Those old aging late teenager age HSB always seemed to be doing their job of eating small fish as long as they were alive until a DO shortage killed them and the SMB living with them. Thus as long as you are seeing or catching some HSB,,, IMO you would not need to add more HSB. Plus HSB are relatively cheap compared to SMB. How difficult is it to get more HSB from Jones (FtWayne) or Remlinger?? . I question how big of a task would it be to every 5-7 years add a few more new HSB? As opposed to all the messing around dealing with constant recruitment from smallies. If you later as in several years, become very busy and little time for pond management, the SMB could become over abundant and then decimate the panfish / minnow / shiner community. Then that becomes a new unneeded problem when family life tasks becomes hectic. Your pond, your choice, your life style for time managing a fishery.

PLUS good luck locating some SMB when they are needed. Apparently you have not dealt with fish farms offering SMB for sale. I've seen many fish farms promise to have SMB in the Fall to only then say in Fall "Sorry our spawn was not good this year or there is a shortage of SMB and no smallies". That even sometimes happen with LMB. Sorry sold out. Then if you don't have SMB reserved from an alternate remote fish farm getting them becomes another unneeded problem and you wait another whole year to MAYBE NUST MAYBE get some and they could be several states away. I've seen that happen many times for folks here on the forum.

If you are thinking of really needing SMB then I would do this. Get and stock some HSB get them surviving. Then try your best whenever to get at least several SMB. Good luck with that. I helped with several YP/RES ponds where the owner used both HSB and SMB as co-predators. They are very compatible living together.

A side issue which may not matter to you. Some people love eating HSB, and some do not. Have you ever eaten HSB, if you are possibly considering them for table fare?

I talked to a customer today that has a HSB/SMB/BG/HBG/RES/HBC/YP/WE pond that also has a self sustaining reproducing population of GSH. 4 acres, 28' deep. He is the only customer I have that has more than enough cover in his pond in the form of large/small trees, brush piles and rock piles. He's also the only customer I have that keeps meticulous harvest records. He feeds the fish in his pond a good commercial grade fish food, and he also has a bottom diffusion aeration system in the pond. The pond is IIRC 9 years old.

His BG/HBG are running around 12"-13" and are over 2 pounds. His HBC are 16"-17", YP are up to 16", SMB (Neosho strain) are 18" and he thinks 5 pounds. His Northern Strain (from Snipe) are 15" after 2 years and 2-3 pounds. HSB are unknown size wise, I am guessing 8 - 10 pounds judging by the swirl they leave when getting food. He has one TH feeder and he also walks around the pond hand feeding when he's not working the fields (he's a farmer).

For some reason he thinks there are too many GSH in the pond and he's caught and removed probably 600 between 5"-9" in the past two years when ice fishing. This winter he and his friends harvested 900 BG/HBG between 7" and 10". He's also removed 200 HBC in the 7"-8" size range.

He said all the HBC that they removed and cleaned had stomachs full of 3/4" BG. Very few GSH. He's going to try and harvest 50 Neosho strain SMB this year.

If anybody gets IN-FIsherman magazine, take a look at the article by Steve Alexander that is in the most recent magazine. The BG that is on the title page of the article is from that customers pond.

If you V-cut and unzip the blood line, the filets cook up much better.

It would seem that SMB are going to be difficult to find after making some phone calls to fisheries. I would prefer to avoid babysitting my pond and having to constantly analyze the fish size, although I don't mind occasionally. I have enough other things in life to manage so a "set and forget" would be the most convenient. Although that may not be very realistic.

Based on where I am and what I have right now, it seems that the HSB may be the best option, as I could always add the SMB later if I decide to. Do I also need to add some crates to the pond if I go with that HSB vs the SMB?

Crates???

esshup -- he 'probably' means crayfish. They are not needed in any fisheries however having some always diversifies and enhances the food chain. Adding the right kind also when they are thriving with the "right" habitat helps reduce the amount of green underwater growths depending on abundance of both. I have had of them in one of my ponds to eliminate all submerged vegetation and most of the marginal plants. I am the one that first here promoted the benefit of crayfish controlling plant growth. Although most pond owners here never have the right amount of good beneficial habitat and too many predators eating all the crayfish.

Bill, I try to never assume. One customer had a heck of a time getting underwater plants established even with SMB in the pond. He has a lot of rock piles and wood habitat in the pond and it's taken about 4 years to get some weeds established. We had to make exclusion cages from 1/2" chicken wire to allow plants to get established and start producing seeds to populate some of the rest of the pond.

esshup - as the SMB become more abundant and recruits become larger without proper SMB harvest the higher numbers of SMB will pretty well eliminate the crayfish which is probably happening after 4yrs which is why the plants are doing better in side the cages and those plants you should be seeing are spreading outside of the enclosures.

Neosho strain SMB are 5# now, it's a pretty steep shoreline with no SMB spawning habitat, but he IS seeing some (minimal) recruitment.. He will be harvesting 60# of SMB this year. At least one of the years he attributes no weeds to geese. He had a flock dipping their heads underwater one Spring. but he's paying more attention now and running them off too. He will be harvesting Neosho strain and returning any Northern Strain that he catches.

For those interested here is some information about Neosho strain smallies:
The Neosho bass (Micropterus velox), formerly considered a strain of smallmouth bass, was recognized as a distinct species in 2022. Endemic to the Ozark region in Arkansas, Missouri, and Oklahoma (specifically the Arkansas River basin), it is a small, riverine fish often identified by a more slender body, slightly protruding lower jaw, and unique vertical markings.

Key Characteristics and Biology
Size: They are generally smaller than northern smallmouth bass, with an average max length around 13–16 inches.
Lifespan: Short-lived compared to northern counterparts, rarely exceeding six to eight years.
Habitat: Adapted to swift-water streams and rivers within the Ozark highlands.
Identification: Subtle differences include a more slender body/head, a slightly protruding lower jaw, and distinct coloration

esshup - do you think the northern and Neosho SMB in that pond are creating hybrids. 5 lb is a pretty big individual for Neosho strain SMB.

They may be BUT the looks of this particular fish shows absolutely 0 traits of a Northern SMB. These Neosho have been in the pond for IIRC (without looking at my records) 7-8 years and the Northern have only been in the pond for 2 years.