Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction New member seeking input on pond construction

Hello everyone. I'm a newly minted member but have been browsing the forums for about a year to start to learn from the wisdom of this community. Sorry for the lengthy first post!

I am planning to construct a 1-ac pond this summer in Northeast Indiana on our 20-ac property. I have met with a couple pond builders but haven't selected one yet. We will be building a home on the property a year or two later. I thought I'd post my current design/thoughts and ask you experts to poke holes in it or give other suggestions/considerations.

Objectives for the pond are
1) swimming, playing at the beach, canoeing, etc (I have 5 kids and a large extended family that will likely be gathering at our place regularly),
2) a nice, relatively clean, aesthetic feature to add beauty to our property,
3) fishing (we'll enjoy casting a line every so often, but don't necessarily need the biggest and best trophy fish or anything like that).

I expect to stock starting with FHM or other small forage fish initially, then BG/RES and LMB (and maybe a few SMB?) thereafter.

I have attached an image of the currently planned pond design (sorry it's a little rough).


Pond size/dimensions/features:
• North side of pond to have a bank (perhaps you would call it a dam) to maintain even height with south side (where the ground is ~3 ft higher). I'm targeting a 15' wide bank of compacted clay, per one contractor's recommendation. The outline in the drawing leaves 15' outside of tree drip lines of the woods to the north, to avoid tree damage from mounding over roots.
• Pond edges sloped at about a 3:1 grade, except for the beach area. I wouldn't feel comfortable going steeper, in the interest of child safety.
• Beach to be 40' wide, 20' deep. Sand to extend into the pond to 40' out. It can gradually narrow off the beach to a width of about 30'. Clay ridge around the end of the sandy area to keep sand in place
• Entry point from the beach to be very gradual and include several levels of flat ground
• I will plan to lay down weed barrier down before sand is spread
• At the corner to the south of the beach, we'd like a small flat "shelf" with water around 1' deep for kids to play. After a "step down" off the shelf, the edge will be gently sloped for safety.
• Another small shelf on the south east side for fish beds? I've seen mixed thoughts about whether it is a good idea to give BG extra ideal bedding locations since they are prolific breeders even without additional help, and I don't want overpopulation. I'm thinking this other shelf would be a bit deeper and intended more for the LMB.
• Depth to reach 10-12' at most places, with a couple deeper pockets of around 15-18' towards the center and east portions
• Overflow to run into woods at NE corner of pond.
• Stone/riprap: currently undecided on this. Opinions here seem to be varied.
• Floating dock to be built on the south side. I like the idea of being able to detach the dock portion and use it as a raft.
• I'd like to run electrical to the beach and the dock to power aerators and anything else.
• Fish structures/habitat will be mostly in the central and east portions at various depths. Brush piles (I have mostly Oak and have seen the warnings here about tannins so will limit quantity), Christmas trees, cement blocks, vinyl siding strip creations etc., following the many great ideas on this forum.
• Bottom aeration on the eastern half, ideally with multiple diffusers. Should these be in the deepest/coldest areas?
• Surface aeration/fountain (?) – this would be more for aesthetics as these don't seem to improve water quality significantly compared to bottom aeration

I don't anticipate much trouble with water level, as there is decent watershed to the south and west. The soil is good clay and there are successful ponds nearby. The attached image shows a berm that will be constructed at the property line to the south, but it will have at least one culvert to allow water flow to the pond. I will have a well within 120' of the pond that could be used for additional fill as needed. Would it be advisable to have a pipe run directly to the pond when the well is dug? Or should I just plan to use a garden hose from a house spigot at any times where I may need to add some water?

Where am I on the right path, and what should I rethink? Any other ideas I'm not considering? Thank you all in advance!

Howdy and welcome. A few possibly pertinent thoughts:

If swimming is he primary goal, consider your fish stocking choices carefully. BG have a (sadly, deserved) reputation for nipping at exposed swimmer's flesh. After years of denial, I have to testify to this fact myself.

If you have no other use for electric at the pond side (I understand wanting lights, etc. - I have a 50A 220VAC service at one pond, and pipe compressed air to the second one.), it is cheaper to run air from a remote aeration pump to the pond than it is to run the electric. Quieter pondside as well.

IIRC one has to pull a fountain from the pond on the Winter, or possibly let it run all the time. I have no experience on this myself, so get actual user inputs on this situation.

You probably want to put the main/most diffuser(s) in deep spots, but having one in shallow water will allow for Winter aeration when the pond is covered with opaque ice with the lowest risk of supercooling.

Dig test holes to see what soil(s) you have at your prospective pond site(s)!!!

Thanks Theo!

I have experienced BG nipping at times, and do have some concern that the wife and kids will get spooked once it happens to them. Are there any good alternatives that make for good fishing and food for bass but are less nippy? I understand that RES don't nip, but are also hard to catch.

When you mention a remote aeration pump, are you suggesting the pump could be near our house, and I'd just have extra tubing to reach the pond? I hadn't considered that. Would the pump be able to run efficiently if it has to push air 2-300 ft? I know there are also solar-powered aerators, but my understanding is they aren't as effective and only run when the sun is out.

It's hard to support enough forage for LMB without BG. You could go with alternative predators like HSB (take feed very well) or SMB (need special spawning structure to maintain a population), either of which should interface well with YP and RES.

Lots of info here on HSB, and you can do a search for posts by Brettski who developed a very nice SMB/YP/RES pond near Kokomo.

Cody Note: The SMB &/or HSB / YP / RES fish community is a very good way to initially stock the pond. Then If you don't like that type of fishery you can always later add BG and LMB. The BG LMB will within a few years will dominate to replace the smallmouth, perch and redears. You cannot get that type of a good SMB-YP fishery that does not bother swimmers when starting with BG-LMB!

Typically you use very large earthmoving equipment to construct a 1-acre pond. You will therefore pay a decent "mobilization fee" for this equipment that will somehow be included in your pond construction invoice.

My advice would be to use that very efficient heavy equipment as much as possible while it is on location! For example, if you know the grade for the house, basement/storm shelter requirements, path for the driveway, etc., then at least do all of the "rough" work for that with the heavy equipment. Have the contractor scrape and stockpile your good topsoil. Then your finish grade and topsoil spreading for your landscaping can easily be accomplished by the much smaller equipment of typical home finishing contractors.

Beware, this approach (plus building a pond) will make it look like a ghastly WWI bombed out landscape on that corner of your property.

I like that you have some available watershed to the south and west of your pond. Shaping that watershed to send water to your pond should also be accomplished during your rough grading with the heavy equipment.

As soon as your pond is finished, you need to immediately plant your erosion-resistant landscaping species. You will have just paid a lot of money to create depth in your pond. A heavy rain on recently worked ground could easily erode 1-2' of soil into the bottom of your pond!

Your other problem will be tree leaves coming into your pond from your border trees to the north. A lot of leaf debris will create an organic muck on the bottom of your pond. This may add unwanted nutrients into your pond, and eventually also rob some depth.

If these trees are more than a row or two deep, then you could probably cut them back more than 15' from the edge of the pond and still barely notice the change when looking over the pond from your house on the opposite side. (The good news is that you can always cut trees later after you have observed the interaction of your pond with the landscape for one or two annual cycles.)

I agree with Theo on the cost of running airlines over distance compared to electrical lines. You will suffer some frictional pressure losses in your air lines with a flow rate sufficient to aerate a 1-acre pond. However, long electrical lines also would suffer a voltage drop due to the cumulative resistance over the long run of your conductors. Paying to go to a larger airline is usually significantly cheaper than paying for larger copper conductors!

Congrats on your property and new pond project. It should be fun to develop, and then even more fun later when enjoyed with your family!

Good advice, thank you! I am a bit concerned about leaves, but also like the look of a pond up against a tree line (and don't want the pond to be too long and narrow), so I've been wrestling with that balance and what is the right distance from trees to pond. I'm hoping muckiness from leaf concentration would be mostly in the northeast corner, well away from where we'll be swimming, and minimized by aeration.

I am planning to have the excavator build the house pad and possibly also the gravel driveway at the same time. No worries about the bombed out landscape - currently it is a mess of weeds, so no great loss there!

For erosion resistance, would it be worth putting up a temporary silt fence across the main channel where water flows in from the neighboring property, until grass is established? How do others minimize erosion after initial construction?

I also like the look of trees around the pond! Any new ponds I build at my place will be right out in the middle of prairie grass. I much prefer your "look"!

Yes the silt fencing is a good idea. There is a reason they use them on construction sites. Right now, silt fencing with stakes is only $0.37/foot at our local Menards.

There are also several good threads on Pond Boss about landscape plantings for erosion control - you might go read a few of those. Some of our "green thumb" members have put some good ideas in there.

Have you gone to the county extension office yet in the county of your property? If you get a good agent there, that can be a very valuable resource, especially for local conditions information. Many states have programs to subsidize the sale of seed blends when it is explicitly used for erosion control. Obviously, that blend would be optimized for your soils and climate.

TML, I'll hop on here tonight when I have more time. I am probably the closest forum member to you - I'm just West of Plymouth. For a swimming pond, I'd completely skip the Bluegill/ Hybrid Bluegill/ Largemouth Bass. and go with Fatheads, Golden Shiners, Redear Sunfish, Yellow Perch, Smallmouth Bass, Hybrid Striped Bass.

We've had customers push air close to 1/2 mile to their ponds. While we don't physically dig ponds, we do everything else. Design, aeration systems, fountains, fish stocking, fish feeders, docks, etc., etc.

You obviously have done your research and have thought this out well. Great job.

My only advice would be to spend the money early. It's a lot easier to build it right than to fix it down the road. Whoever the contractor is...stay on them to do it right. Hopefully they do it on their own but I wouldn't leave it to chance (or just their opinions). Be meticulous about the details.

Our pond ended up being shallower than we wanted because we didn't stay on them in the very beginning.

Cody Note: The above items are common problems with letting the builder do it all his way without and regular oversight.

Lets see if I can make a Cliff Notes version or you will be reading for a long time.

I would contact the NRCS office in Fort Wayne. Natural Resources Conservation Service (260) 484-5848 2720 Dupont Commerce Ct, Ste 101 Fort Wayne, IN 46825. They should be able to provide a watershed calculation for you and also be able to size an overflow pipe for you. You have to have one as a primary overflow, and a secondary overflow in case of a 500 or 1,000 year rain event. On the NRCS website, there is a 90ish page booklet about building a pond. It's a good reference to download and save. If memory serves me correctly it's called AH-590.

Note via Cody: If the "dug" pond is built with good clay and is built well with very good clay compaction and has minimal leakage, the pond needs very little water shed surface drainage to keep it full. A well sealed all clay lined dug pond will lose only about 12" to 14" of water each year due to evaporation. The average annual precipitation for central Indiana is 33" - 50" per year. This is more than enough annual added water to keep this type of pond well full.

I'll try to hit the points in the order that you made them.

I'd try to go further than 15". Any equipment movement can compact soil on tree roots and they are a minimum of the drip edge out from the trunk. A customer lost over 200 trees on his property, some 150 yrs old or older due to soil compaction. He lost trees up to around 8 years post construction.

3:1 is perfect.

next 3 points - all is great. Look into White Cap 3333 Independence Dr, Fort Wayne, IN 46808 for your geotextile fabric (weed block_ They should have it in rolls up to 15' wide.

I would consider making that 1' deep area for the kids to play 18" deep. If it's a dry year and you lose 6" water, 12" depth doesn't give you any buffer. Also making it 18" - 24" out of pea gravel with geotextile underlayment it can also be used for a spawning area.

In my pond, the fish seem to prefer the North side for spawning (warms up earlier) then the South side as the spawning season progresses.

Make it average 12' with it continuing to taper to 18'. "pockets" tend to fill in within a few years of construction and you will be amazed at how little room you have to get the depth. Remember 1' depth for every 3' horizontal, but you also have to come back up. So, a pond that is 120' wide might hit 18' depth for only 12' width before it has to start to get shallower. (3:1) A customer had a 6' wide x about 4' width trench dug in the bottom of his pond during construction. 2 years later that trench was no longer there, it all fell in and tapered out.

Stone/riprap is good, providing habitat/cover for small fish. To keep it above the dirt, it's best to use Geotex fabric under it, and don't have it go much above the waterline - too hard to walk on if you want to fish around the edges of the pond.

Floating dock is good if the water levels fluctuate. If they don't, maybe think about a fixed "T" shaped or "L" shaped dock with a floating raft that is tied up next to it. How would you maneuver that raft around in the pond? If making a floating dock, it has to be "T" or "L" shaped to prevent sway. DON'T consider using 55 gallon barrels. Been there, done that and regretted it. If using wood, use wood that is rated at least UC4B/UC4C with UC5/H6 being best. The "new" wood treatments don't last anywhere near as long as the older treatments. Don't think about using anything other than stainless deck screws. Use hot dipped galvanized bolts for attaching joists together. Dockbuilders Supply is what I tell my customers to use for floats and joist/support attachment hardware for floating docks. Dockkbuilders Supply.

Electric will be pricey. We have pushed air roughly 1/2 mile to a customers pond where electric wasn't available near the pond without any issues. BUT, if you want a fountain, then electric at the pond is a must. Run at least 1 size bigger wire than what you think you need. If running the bare minimum wire size, then anything else added later could let the magic smoke out of an aeration compressor or a fountain pump motor.........Bottom diffusion aeration could be done with 1/4 hp, maybe 1/3 hp at the most.

We will talk about habitat for the fish. Keep it away from swimming areas, but the rest of the pond should have roughly 1/4 acre of cover in it for the fish. You can put some under the dock.

Bottom diffusion aeration in the deepest part of the pond, 1, maybe 2 diffusers. One for the winter *somewhere* at 1/4 to maybe 1/3 total pond depth, within 20 feet of shoreline.

Fountain for aesthetics (maybe with a light kit for night time viewing?)

Yes to the well for the pond. A garden hose won't be enough volume. Think 2" or 3" PVC. I still haven't been able to figure out a way to let it run into the pond and still keep water pressure in the house. May thru October 1956-1970 shows a total average of 35" water evaporating for those months. That is from a quick search, maybe you can find more recent data. Look for recent May-Oct rainfall numbers.for Allen County. Maybe the NRCS there can help. FYI, 1" water over 1 acre equals 27,154 gallons of water. A 4" well can't really pump more than 100 gpm. Remember well water has 0 oxygen in it.

As for the driveway, I would say yes. Again, use Geotex fabric under the stones to keep them from disappearing into the dirt and you having to add gravel every 2 years. Geotex will allow 4-5 years before needing more. Compact the driveway with a vibratory roller before adding the 57's and compact those when added.. Start with #2's and let all the construction equipment drive over them to pack everything down. Don't put the fine 57's down until the house is built and the landscaping is done or close to done. Every year hit it with a land plane to re-distribute the loose gravel, that will prolong it's life.

As for constructing the pond.. Excavators/dozers/maybe off road dump trucks are needed, NOT a dragline. The clay should also be compacted with a sheepsfoot roller. Tracks on equipment are there to keep the equipment from sinking into the dirt, NOT for compacting the dirt - that's what the sheepsfoot roller is for. A flat drum roller won't work. Think of paper pages of a book. Water can move between the pages. That's what happens with a smooth drum roller. A sheepsfoot roller disrupts the pages. Also, plan on having the contractor pump out any water that seeps in during construction. If the contractor says it won't be a problem, just nod your head and when he leaves draw a line through his name. The contractor needs to control soil moisture to get proper compaction, and if they are digging in water, how can they know how deep they are digging? I can tell you about a customer that listened to the contractor tell him that he could dig in water. After spending into the 6 figure range to have the pond dug, the customer called me to verify water depth. Many areas were 3', with the deepest being 7', not the 20' that he wanted. Contractor didn't pump out water, and the water washed out dirt/silt/muck/peat from the bucket and it floated all over the pond, filling in areas that they just dug. Yes the long stick was going down 20 feet, but it was getting filled in as fast as they scooped it out.

The contractor should be responsible for all permits needed, and you have to verify that permits were pulled. DO NOT talk to the Army Core of Engineers unless you don't have any other choice.

I have plenty of horror stories and good stories.

That should get your brain working for a little bit!

Hi all. I’ve now had a second round of meetings with three contractors and am getting quotes. I asked each about compaction and use of a sheepsfoot roller. One of the contractors, who digs lots of ponds in the area, said he instead uses a loaded wheeled earthmover, and drives over everything so that the wheels have covered and compacted every square inch.

Would you have concerns about proper compaction with this approach? Again, this is more of a dug pond than a dammed pond, with about a 3-ft bank on one side.

Using a loaded earthmover can when used in proper conditions can compact good quality clay soil. However very Important points are:
1. dampness of the clay material during construction; too dry of clay does not compact well.
2. thickness of the lifts that are placed on top of each other. Thicker the lifts less compaction between lift layers. Lifts compacted by earthmovers or bulldozers compact the layers as sheets of paper in a book. The layers are not well interconnected nor knitted together.
3. number of passes over each lift layer.
4. quality of the clay and dirt materials and amount of unexpected grainy sand veins can cause compaction problems IN BETWEEN and among the lift layers. Lift layer integrity is very important for sealing an entire pond basin.

These ALL four have to be in good condition for best clay compaction for building a minimal leakage pond.

When all the above items are optimum, then clay compaction is adequate using a wheeled earthmover. Those four unknowns are too much of a gamble for leakage IMO. When any one of the above four is/are present it or they can contribute to leakage pathways. Same goes for sheepsfoot rollers but leakage is less of a chance when the marginal conditions occur.

If it was my pond being built and the contractor was to use a Loaded Wheeled Earthmover, I would want a signed contract that if more than 12"-14" of water was below the overflow pipe during annual dry weather conditions, the contractor guarantees to return and find the leak and repair it no charge. The signed contract IMO emphasizes to the contractor to pay special close attention to clay compaction efforts. A neighbor's 0.3ac pond was built with a loaded wheeled earthmover. Pond receives house roof drainage. Clay was damp during construction, contractor was well experienced. Luckily clay was damp in spring and lift layers were spread thin when pond was built.

My contention is, if loaded wheeled earthmovers are adequate at clay compaction then why do specialized soil compacting sheepsfoot rollers and vibrating sheepsfoot rollers exist?

Remember the sheepsfoot roller KNITS, importance here is KNITS and interconnects the two clay lift layers together. Wheeled compactors just squeezes or presses the two clay layers together. Pressed together clay layers leaves a seam between the two layers and when soil/s are grainy or too dry, or too thick water can work its way more easily between the compressed layers. Subsoil has various soil type veins, textures and layers depending on how nature laid down the soil in Indiana during the periodic ice ages. Unknown subsoil layers can be a problem when building a dug pond.

^^^^ What Bill said.

Thank you Bill! I’ll insist on the sheepsfoot.

One thing I’ve been trying to understand: are there lifts in a dug pond? Isn’t that only for a dam that is built up in layers?

No, those lifts are for the whole pond basin that will be under water too. Just like pulling the drain plug in a bath tub. if the pond basin isn't sealed as good as the dam, the pond will leak.

If the basin of the pond is excavated into a clay or clay loam bed, then it usually can be sealed by deeply scarifying (tilling/plowing/etc.) to break up the natural layers and then compacting with the sheepsfoot to make the seal.

However, if you have even a single layer of sand, gravel, sandy loam, etc. that can transmit water, then that needs to be well sealed.

If that is only at the 4' deep level, then it might be sealed with a single 6" lift of clay material since the hydrostatic pressure is quite low at that depth. Unfortunately, at shallower depths it is possible for living things to puncture a 6" seal and cause the pond to leak. Muskrats and otters might dig through. Also, various plants can have roots penetrate the seal and then cause a leak when the plant dies and the roots decay.

If you do reach a maximum depth of 18' and bottom out in a sand layer, then you are really going to need a good seal! That is a LOT of hydrostatic pressure trying to push water out of your pond through any tiny available path. For a depth of 20' the recommendation is usually a seal of 2' thickness in four 6" lifts.

The best "general" advice is 1' of seal down to a pond depth of 10', and then increasing the seal thickness with depth such that you reach 2' of seal by 20' depth. All seals should be constructed in lifts of 6" thickness with properly wetted material. (One good source recommends an additional 2" of seal for each foot of pond depth below 10' to really be safe.)

Your contractor will probably claim that is overkill (depending upon how you are paying him). And he would probably be correct in many circumstances. I suspect many ponds have been sealed with less than the recommended seal thickness. However, I have never read a single report on Pond Boss where someone complained they spent too much money on sealing their pond the right way the first time. Also, if the pond does leak, it is much more expensive to come back and fix it compared to doing it right during the initial construction.

Cody note - For the contractor to rent a double barrel sheepsfoot roller or powered vibratory sheepsfoot is cheap leak insurance IMO when compared to the price of building a pond.

A lot of your money spent on the construction equipment goes to getting the equipment on your property. Another small chunk goes into getting the operator's butt in the seat at the start of the day. Another big chunk goes into shaping the pond and moving the spoils piles into the proper locations. After all of that money has been spent, spreading and compacting an extra lift or two from your clay material pile back into the pond does not add than many more hours of equipment time and diesel expense.

I hope that helps your thinking a bit.

Good luck on your new pond!

The way our best pond builder builds dug ponds in NW Ohio is at the beginning,,,,, the final size of the pond is over excavated by one bull dozer width wide down until they find good clay; usually at a depth of around 6-7ft locally. Top soil is saved,,,,, to at the very end be spread out back around the pond to grow good grass / vegetation. Usually this over excavated depth is the farm field tile depth or tree root depths. Then when the good clay layer is found,,,, then that clay of the deep final pond basin is used for the final top perimeter of pond and brought up to be spread in 6" lifts to fill the outer enlarged boarder of that over excavated bull dozer width. Those spread out 6" lift layers are then spread and compacted by a DOUBLE barrel sheepsfoot roller. Single barrel bull behind sheepsfoot rollers bounce around too much for best action of compaction. This process of the over excavated perimeter creates about a 8ft wide, very well compacted deep top clay liner layer consisting of very good well compacted clay around the entire top perimeter of the pond. The excavated deep clay basin is also well compacted with the sheepsfoot roller. These builders brag "they do not build leakers".

I'm honestly surprised that the original poster is in northern Indiana and contacted 3 pond builders who have dug several ponds but who have not heard of the importance of the proper compaction process and the tools needed to do it. Is it possible that 3 pond builders in his area all build 'leaky' ponds and that is just the state of the art? Would it be helpful to suggest companies to him that do use better techniques, kind of a word of mouth recommendation? This could be done through private messaging of course.

We are in SW MI and I'm not aware of many new ponds being dug or any pond builders that have the proper skills so I can't give a good recommendation. By us ponds are dug by 'dirt movers' and all tend to penetrate into ground water seams and therefore they all are 'leaker' ponds that go up and down with ground water tables. It ends up being a way to put your money to use similar to paying the government to research why potholes happen in MI or why drug use is higher in inner city neighborhoods.

Welcome to the forum!

I talk to over 1000 folks annually about pond construction, rehab, and leak abatement and this is great advice here - sheepsfoot is mandatory or you'll likely be calling me in a season or two meanwhile the contractor is loooong gone. Dictate the pond build process, you're the customer, and the General Contractor.

Think long and hard about the beach - sounds like a blast [it did to me, also, many years ago], but if your kiddos are anything like mine they'll prefer jumping off the floating dock into deeper, cooler water free of vegetation and the well planned beach will become a hassle to manage for macrophytes/silt/muck, and ultimately, may become ignored. I'd spend that effort on a water trampoline and/or a zipline. Up to you, just my experience.

Regarding erosion - I use a linear polymer designed as a tackifier and I'll donate enough to cover your project. Way less time, effort, and better control than using silt fences, etc. It will hold your soils in place until your vegetation emerges. Just share the resulting science with our community following the project and we'll be square.

The guys above nailed it - I have nothing more to add. The more time you spend on parent material preparation and compaction the less chance you'll have to spend down the road on leak abatement, rehab, etc. Feel free to reach out anytime to discuss your project - can cover a lot more ground on a call - my time is always free to the PB family. Also, strongly consider hiring Scott at Hoosier Pond Pros [Esshup] for pond/fishery management, site selection, stocking, etc. He's one of the best, and one of our own.

TJ

teehjaeh57 is very experienced in the pond management circles. Heed his advice.
I like his advice about a swimming beach. Earlier I was going to mention size of the beach and neglected that topic. I now add to TJ's very good advice.
As the kids get older than 4 to 6 they will not use the wading beach. The want as TJ says playing, jumping, and swim activities in deeper water and this is often because the beach sediments are black and smelly. Sand beaches with neglect of frequent activity very quickly (3-4 yrs) develop black sediments under the surface. If you have spent time around ponds,, you have sees this very common feature. Every pond with a shallow beach beach area develops blackish smelly sediments because of lack of physical activities in the beach due to no oxygenated freshwater getting mixed down into the sediment or the sand/gravel below. This results in black anoxic / anaerobic sediments due to anaerobic bacteria living there products. Sand gravel beaches as they age with no mixing activity need to be regularly raked to prevent or eliminate the anaerobic bacteria community that creates black sediments. Thus when the kids are bigger than toddler size you will need to rake the beach area to keep it in good clean condition. The larger the beach the longer the time you will spend regularly raking it.

Black sediments do not develop in beaches of larger lakes because whitecap wave action regularly mixes and thrashes the beach sediments.

IMO Install the beach as small as necessary because some day soon when the kids quit rough housing and playing in the beach, you will have to be raking the
entire beach area to keep the sediment material fresh and clean so minimal black material and muck are present. For swim ponds I suggest the beach is no bigger than the front of a car or pickup; easily and quickly raked. I built a cement beach in my pond, however it too needs work of sweeping off the collected settled materials and accumulated plant detritus.

Do keep us updated about your pond progress in the future.

Bill is absolutely correct about the beach area. Years ago at the public lake there was a public access next to the house. The lake is mostly a muck lake, but there are sandy areas. 1st thing in the Spring, the swimming area was covered with a few inches of soft mucky sediment. As the Spring progressed into Summer, the swimming area came back to it's normal hard sandy bottom, out to about shoulder water depth. It was about 35 feet wide. Swim to either side past that width, and the lake bottom came up and it got mucky/weedy with Chara. The people swimming and walking there kept the bottom stirred up and the mucky sediment away from that area.

That same process happened every year. The swimming area was probably around 12" deeper than the surrounding mucky area just due to the human activity there keeping the mucky sediments stirred up.

As for pond builders here in NW Indiana, the good ones are typically backed up close to a year. There are others that are OK, but they like to try and cut corners. If they are watched by someone that knows what needs to be done, they will do what they are supposed to do.

Then there are others that are just plain dirt movers and know better than anybody else. Here the pond builders are busy enough that they don't need to take on jobs that are more than a county away - there's plenty of business close by so longer travel time isn't something that they want to do. Now with the diesel prices increasing 45%, they are even more reluctant to take on jobs that are further away.

My advice would be to keep talking to different pond builders. If they say that they they don't have to pump out any water that might accumulate in the pond basin, thank them for taking the time to talk to you and call someone else.

Thanks again to you all! This community is an amazing resource for someone in my position.

I’ll continue with my due diligence on finding the right contractor. I’m meeting with one tomorrow who uses a vibrating sheepsfoot and typically digs a core trench around the whole pond (that sounded like overkill to me). I’m just hoping his quote won’t be astronomically higher than what I have so far.

Regarding the beach, we have a large extended family and will regularly be hosting gatherings with 20+ kids playing in the sand (plus adults), so the beach is a must for our purposes and will get lots of action.

Teehjaeh: wow, what a generous offer! I’d love to take you up on it, and will be happy to provide whatever feedback on the results would be helpful. I’ll get in touch with you when we’re a little closer to the dig.

I did connect with Scott over the phone last month, and he was extremely helpful on many topics. I plan to work with him on stocking when the time comes.

One other topic/question that has come up from my contractor discussions: would you all recommend for or against using a spillway instead of an overflow pipe? One guy recommended that so I don’t have to deal with pipe problems from freezing/thawing. Another thought it would be fine as long as the spillway area was well-compacted and covered with stone. The third said it’s a bad idea because the ground will be soggy. With only about 6-acres or less of watershed, I don’t know how often to expect the overflow/spillway to even be used.

I'd skip the spillway as a primary overflow for the pond and keep it as a secondary (or emergency) overflow. Too many have washed away that weren't properly constructed and sloped. You have to keep the water flow under "X" depth and under "X" speed to stop it from eroding. Yes, to the constantly wet comment too. If you want to mow it, and you leave a bunch of furrows from the tires, how would you smooth it back out? I have heard of spillways that were made of concrete wash away because the water somehow got under the concrete and washed the dirt away, making the concrete fail.

I took the bypass around Ft. Wayne today on my way to the Dayton, OH area.

To stop any problems with the freeze/thaw issue with the overflow pipe, put the winter aerator near the overflow pipe so it keeps the ice thawed in that area. Problem solved.

Install primary spillway according to rainfall and watershed. Oversize a tad.

ALSO install an emergency spillway in case primary becomes overcome with volume or gets clogged by detritus. Dam failures often occur when water runs OVER the top of the dam, eroding backfill on toe.

I recommend trickle tube set 18-36" below freeboard straight shot to toe of dam - cheapest, simplest, most reliable primary spillway design. Do not install standpipe spillway design - it's a matter of time before it fails in my experience and is far more expensive to install.

If you want to regulate water level you can also install a siphon system - frankly I think these are overkill unless you need to fluctuate water levels during the year....but why?

Be sure to mandate installation of at least 2 antiseep collars on primary spillway pipe hand tamped clay around pipe and collars.

Install broken concrete at toe of dam to prevent erosion - that water wil have a lot of force.

Emergency spillway does NOT need to be installed with rock unless you have a free source of broken concrete [ugly IMO], instead finish spillway with topsoil/black dirt and seed with native grasses as soon as project is completed. Rock is overkill IME - hopefully you'll never need to use your ES anyhow, but when you do, those deeply rooted native grasses will work just as well as rock for a fraction of the price.

Cant add much to what these guys have said.

One thing I did on my pond was run my overflow pipe from a concrete drop box for the water to go into then out the back of the box, works extremely well for keeping up with the incoming water, when the water level rises a couple inches I have a couple inches flowing into the box from three sides and fills my overflow pipe to full capacity quickly, I have an emergency spillway a foot or so higher than the box and my water has never got up to the emergency spillway in 7 yrs, with some pretty heavy rain events, in spite of having 120+ acres draining into my pond, 15 acres.

The cons to that is the water that it releases is skimmed right off the top of the pond and sometimes, in certain times of the yr, that also means losing a lot of tiny baitfish, I have added screen to the sides to make it more difficult for the babys to get washed over board.

I am in agreement with most on the beach area, its a pita to keep usable, but I can see your desire for one with the kids, it might be worth the extra effort to keep it clean. but for the most part, if not, without enough maintenance, the first two minutes in it will stir up enough sediment to make the water too nasty to enjoy.

We all picture a nice sandy beach, like at the ocean, but it really doesn't work that way here in the inland areas where the ponds fill with runoff groundwater, but again, with the kids it will probably be worth the effort, in about five yrs you will let us know that the beach has been abandoned.