Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Stocking my pond - NE Ohio

New to the group and pond owning here. This has been unbelievably helpful. Thank you all for your input.

I recently had a .8 acre dug in NE Ohio. It is 9'-8" in the deepest and with 6-7' average. I plan on following Bills advice very closely given that I read other posts from spc and he said his YP his 16"!

The only change I plan to make is, I do not want any HSB or BG.

I do believe I have the eye to pick out the GSF, my in-law allows me to net as many minnows (mix of FH and GSH) as I can from his bait pond for free. I will start there. I also will be purchasing 2000 rosy reds to help get the numbers up quick.

I will start with 350-400, 1-2" or 3-4" YP that have been pellet fed from a place called Zetts Fish Farm in PA. They are the most affordable with good reviews that I can find and its just a quick 3ish hour drive from me.

After 2-3 years I will add some larger WE in there, probably 8" and up. Maybe 15-20 of them. I think I need to give the YP ample time to grow and spawn a few times.

The goal is get some monster YP and even a few big WE. I love YP so I will be fishing them pretty consistently.

My wife wants some Koi in there as well. I think 3-4 of them wouldn't muddy up much in a pond this size.

I am interested in learning more about SAE, only if the walleye cannot keep up on the perch. They seem like something that could be a nice addition.

What else should I consider adding? Some CC and GC?

Thank you!

Welcome to the forum! There are other fish farms closer to you that have feed trained perch that are within the state of Ohio.. I'd stock 4"-6" Perch, they are more habituated to the food. I know of 3 hatcheries in the western end of Ohio. To transport fish across state lines, especially in states that touch one of the Great Lakes, you need current health inspections for the fish and an Ohio Department of Agriculture (ODA) Animal Importation Permit and a fish health inspection report. Additionally, a Fish Transportation Permit from the Ohio Department of Natural Resources may be needed.

There is no need to add CC or TGC Only add TGC if absolutely needed. 3-4 Koi shouldn't muddy the water too much, but they will eat the YP eggs when they spawn.

Be durn sure you can pick out any GSF or other fish that you don't want from the hatchery forage ponds. Even a pair of fish could booger up your plans. You might need to add some RES if you end up with a snail problem.

Thank you esshup, would you be able to share the farms in the state that you know of?

Remlinger FIsh Farm, Fort Jennings, Shelby FIsh Farm , Anna Ohio, Millcreek Perch Farm and Brehm's Perch Farm I don't know if the last two only sell wholesale or not. I know that Steve @ Shelby Fish Farm bags fish for transport. I stock ponds and I have hauling tanks so I don't need to worry about bagging fish.

Hopefully Bill Cody will see this and chime in. He's in Ohio and knows YP VERY well.

Thank you. I will look into these for sure! I know most forums I’ve read on here regarding YP, Bill has an input. Very helpful to newbie’s such as myself.

Koi lay a lot of eggs. So if you get 4 there is a good chance of having a pair.

Solid point. Is there a fish that will help keep them in check if that happens?

I do believe the place I’m looking into will select all males. How true that is, I suppose I will find out.

They are big koi’s, at least 12”. So I’m trusting they know what they have.

Koi are just colorful carp. Personally I would not put them in my pond.

I completely understand.

I also understand "Happy wife, happy life." Nothing rhymes with husband.

If you are going with YP , WE combo with koi then I would not add CC. Possibly a few RES if they can survive your winters.

Fender's Fish Farm in Baltic, Ohio can supply LMB, BG, HBG, YP, RES, GC, and (in good spawning years) SMB. They will bag with pure O2 at their facility if your are transporting the fish yourself.

Happy wife compromise:

You can always add a small garden pond near your deck, flower garden, etc. That can be your wife's pond. Put in a few koi and a water feature. To lower her blood pressure after teaching middle school kids, my wife likes a margarita or the sound of running water. I have installed two tumbling waterfalls in her mini-pond. That water feature has a great ROI over the long haul in reduced margarita expenditures.

You can even raise some extra rosy reds in the little pond if you made some suitable spawning habitat, since they will not last long in your main pond.

Have fun managing and enjoying your new big pond!

Since you have access to Fenders, they would be your closest choice IF and a big IF they will guarantee pellet trained YP. BEST thing about Fenders is they often have in Fall walleye and pike. IMO you will need pellet trained YP if you want those really big YP quickly in a pond. If stocking YP in Spring use only 4"-6"ers and maybe a few 6"-8"ers. For 0.8ac - 200-250 4"-6" and 50-75 6"-8" pellet fed. If you stock some pellet eating 7"-8" in Spring 2026 they will be 10"-11" by November. Other VERY good and best farms for guaranteed pellet eating highest quality YP are Shelby at Anna OH and Brehms Fish Farm West Liberty - as my best choices.. YP spawn will be the first April they are in the pond of 2026 or 2027. Make arrangements NOW if you want some YP in late March - very early April 2026 to for this year's YP spawn.

"350-400, 1-2" or 3-4" YP" bought in Spring are last year's slow growing runts. 1 year old well fed YP should be at least 5"-6" long; some can be 7"-8.5" at 365 days old. High quality well fed YP spawned in Spring can and should be 5"-8" long by Winter. Those will be your premium perch for stocking and fast growth. Don't buy slow growing runt perch of 2"-3" in the Fall or Spring for the first pond stocking if you want a premium YP fishery.

Koi - IMO you are allowed only ONE in 0.8 ac. Two koi risk highly the chance of reproduction. Koi reproduction guarantees muddy water. I have a client that stocked 3 koi and now after the first Spring's koi spawn,,,,, he and she have many koi, many regrets and he is paying the DUMB TAX. Koi are much much easier to add than get out of the pond. Shelby FF has the best high quality fish food for YP AND a very colorful selection koi of 6"-10". Have her pick out her favorite ONE - maybe she will like a butterfly koi that Shelby has. An 8" koi can grow to 16"-18" the first YEAR. I now use one koi in ponds to cloud the water when the pond is too clear and then growing too many weeds. Pond aerators mix and disperse the mud and silt cloud from the feeding activities of koi - they are bottom rooters just like river carp. Use TP and GC to control filamentous algae and delicate weeds If your roommate has to have several koi, build her as FishingRod says, a garden pool. In the end it will be cheaper with fewer headaches than you paying the Koi DUMB TAX.

IMO forget the rosey reds. Use just FHM. Put roseys in your wife's garden pond for a supply of breeder Roseys. Rosey are probably more expensive and will get eaten much faster than regular FHM. Don't expect to see rosey reds after the first year when all adults die at 12-18mo old and YP will eat every newly hatched rosey. Thus no breeders.

Hybrid striped bass HSB are also a very good predator to help control YP but they are not good at eating koi. I recently learned for good and best control of prolific YP in a pond, add One LMB, One SMB One CC (or 1-2 WE) and then later if needed enough HSB and or walleye to get the job done. Your WE will not get enough of the proper foods to grow big in 0.8acre; maybe 20"-21" and rarely plump like Lk Erie WE. The first 3 noted predators will eat a total of 700-1000 small fish per year and grow like gangbusters. One does not really need reproducing predators to have a great YP pond. For the best YP fishery you should EVERY YEAR be harvesting as many YP egg ribbons as possible. JUST one hatching YP ribbon can easily produce at least 2000 or more small YP. One egg ribbon from 8" YP has around to 10,000-18,000 eggs depending on body condition of the female. When YP are eating pellets with the proper removal/predation expect to harvest from 0.8ac - 120 8"-13" YP per year. With proper slot limit harvest, expect some of the YP to be 14"-15". 14" YP are possible after just 3 yrs when done right.

First I will say thank you to everyone who has commented. I do appreciate everyone's input. I do think Ill take the advice and avoid the Koi in the large (to me) pond. Add a nice small garden one for the wife to add the colorful fish in.

Bill, Thank you for all of that information. Its very helpful. I am brand new to this and I know I only have one solid shot at this.

I do believe the company I was speaking with was going to sell me fingerlings in June from THIS springs spawn.

I have no issue with buying the larger perch and will most likely be doing so given everyone's suggestions on here.

I'm not super pressed about getting the YP massive FAST, just massive. I'm turning 30 in September so I have time to watch them grow. I do have a few direct questions regarding your last post.

1. Are you saying only put three total predators in the pond, 1 LMB, 1 SMB, and CC? OR Just place in only 2 WE?

2. I planned on placing in nearly 15-20 WE to start (at least two falls from now), but I was going to wait until I a few spawns of perch to do so. This is overkill?
The WE size to me less important, but still would be cool to have some bigger ones. To me, a 20" WE is big enough. Id very happy with that size.

3. If I want to be patient with the YP growth, do they HAVE to be pellet trained to grow larger than 14"?

I really would like to stay away from LMB and SMB. I do not want too many of them and I understand just putting one in addresses that concern, I just don't care for them much personally. I'd really like to stick with WE as my main/only predator but I am open to hearing you out on these for sure. If that's unrealistic please let me know.

The HSB do intrigue me. I wouldn't mind those but I have read so much conflicting information on them, I gave up. I read once they take to pellets they stop hunting as much leading to over population and I've read they hunt so much they'll clean you out completely. I'm just not sure what to think of them.

That’s a good one Theo

That's not true about the HSB. If it was, then why can I catch pellet trained (and pellet fed) HSB in my pond on Rapalas and other fish shaped artificial lures? Fish ARE lazy, but they also are opportunistic. Don't confuse that with being hook shy. HSB, LMB, CC, even BG can get hook shy.

I spent too much time for creating this post, however it is a very interesting topic for me. PB members here call me Dr. Perca for very good reasons. Perca is the technical name for perch. Yellow perch and walleye are in the same scientific family name - Percidae.


OKAY - I DOUBT VERY MUCH THE 2”-3” YP IN June 2026 WILL BE THE 2026 SPAWN. More likely real truth be known they are left overs of the prior year spawn. I see that happen at almost every retail fish farm for every specie of fish. Buyers should know the growth rate of the fish they are buying is growth rate is important; often to the casual buyer it is not that important. . I WOULD BET the price of the fish on it. This is why. 2026 YP FROM **** in PA will be very lucky to be ¾” - 1” by anytime in June when they are to start or learn the pellet training. YP Egg laying at that hatchery latitude will be last week of March and would mostly be Apr 1-15. Hatching takes 8-10 days ; Hatch = Apr 15 -24. Fry growing at the very best rate is 1mm per day. Thus growth in April is about 6 days and May has 31 days. 37days of best growth for new crop YP 37mm = 1.4” by Jun 01.
Most important point of this topic is those newly hatched YP are definitely not dependably well pellet trained when at 2"-3". They not really well habituated to pellets until Sept – Oct and Mar-Apr of the next year. In my extensive experience with YP,,, I would NEVER buy 2”-3” pellet trained YP during any part of the year because a big percentage of them will go off feed when released into a wide open pond having ample natural foods. Newly introduced YP of any size first have to endure harvest seining stressors, usually harsh ones, size grading stressors, tank holding stress conditions of sometimes weeks, travel stressors and then restocking stressors. Then those small YP that don’t get body fungus from all the accumulated stressors and body scrapes have to roam around to then find the pellet feeding location. After all this, most of the YP that are weakly pellet habituated will resort to naturally and instinctively eating live foods. Then what is the point of buying pellet trained YP?

Suggestions are from those that have been there and done that for often YEARS of experience using YP in ponds.

“I'm not super pressed about getting the YP massive FAST, just massive. I'm turning 30 in September so I have time to watch them grow. I do have a few direct questions regarding your last post.”

“about getting the YP massive FAST, just massive”
How do you define massive???. YP on just all natural foods will not grow to as big nor as fast when in a ponds; in lakes often times yes, ponds no. I doubt you will ever be able to grow YP larger than 15” in your pond regardless what they eat. On the average, when YP are eating all naturally grown pond foods their annual growth sizes of each year class will almost always lag at least 2” behind pellet eating YP.
Trophy class YP to me are 17”-19” they are equivalent to trophy LMB of 15-18 lb. Remember one half of whatever YP you buy will be males who always grow slower and will not usually grow as big as the females. So ½ of what you buy as males, IMO will likely never get bigger than 13” when eating the even best natural foods produced in a pond. Lake habitats are widely different compared to “ponds”. Your biggest YP will always be the females.

“1. Are you saying only put three total predators in the pond, 1 LMB, 1 SMB, and 1 CC? OR Just place in only 2 WE?” The key part of a great YP fishery is predator control, both type of predator and numbers of predator. You don’t want the predators reproducing IMO. Know what each predator is capable of eating and manage the YP population so it gets good growth based on their food source/s. Predators are your tools. Add and subtract predators as needed to achieve the goals of the fishery.

Your stocking plan of YP & WE is unproven, not well researched and risky. However the several articles from pond knowledgeable pond managers including a professor say your plan when done correctly can be accomplished. The amount and degree of success depends on many factors. The combination of success is not nearly as easy as the BG-LMB combo.

Yes – 1 lmb, 1 smb, 1 cc OR an equivalent or supplemental number of WE or HSB to manage the YP population so it meets your goals. Diversity of predator behaviors can be an important factor. Forage foods and quantities are also extremely important. That is how I learned to maximize growing the most numbers of jumbo perch. Populations control. For growing YP and any panfish it is all about proper forages and proper panfish control. If you want to use just WE in a basic perch pond,,,,, you can definitely do that i.e. use just WE as main predator (see PB articles below). The main difficulty of mainly YP-WE is monitoring the annual density and numbers in each size class of WE and also the YP and also the other forage fishes. These population features are VERY important to know for producing a good balanced high quality fishery. Unbalance results in slowed growth or no growth.
FYI fish grow as long as they live PROVIDING they always have food to excess. The fish has to eat a certain amount of food to be at Standard Weight so that fish can then continue growth. If the fish is not at SW then it has to eat to gain to standard weight BEFORE it then can grow longer/larger. Lacking of food, the fish loses weight but not length.

Concern - In ponds habitats one does not routinely see the WE. Very rarely you will ever see WE especially when water clarity is less than 4ft. WE are bottom huggers. Both density and sizes of WE determine the amount and type of predation pressure on the forage fishery that includes the young perch. Just because YOU want and plan the WE to mostly eat small YP does not mean the WE in the population will do that - unless small YP are the most prevalent item as a food source. YP of all sizes need continually abundant food items. Best foods for YP change as YP grow . Largest YP thrive on a combination of various sizes of minnows and/or shiners, larger invertebrates such as crayfish, bottom dwelling worms, leeches, numerous invertebrates such as mayfly, dragon fly, caddis fly, crane fly larvae, even snails, aquatic amphipods and other larger invertebrates that frequent dense habitats. I have seen natural food eating YP by themselves eliminate a FHM population. Problem becomes how does one keep enough adequate diverse forages so both YP and WE grow well? For me non-reproducing predators “fill the bill” when dealing with predation of mostly with YP. Each species has its own potential for recruitment. Knowing that is important for a high quality fishery.

If you manage your pond for a natural foods fed fishery for having mainly YP,,,,, what are the foods and the diversity of it going to be to keep the YP growing to those jumbo sizes?. EXAMPLE A population of YP depending on their density will need to on an annual basis consume at least 3 times (3X) their total population weight(std. wt. SW), JUST to maintain their body weight or body condition and then get no growth in length. More foods are then needed for growth of length.

Using old fish growth standards(10x) for good growth they need to eat 10X the weight of the total population for growth however long that takes. Less than a 10X amount equates to less than good growth. Let’s say you stock 250 YP of 4-6” in the 0.8 ac. When these perch are 8” long (100gram ea) the population total body weight should be 55lbs. When they are at 9” (135g ea) total population body weight will be around 74 lbs. Wt difference of growth is 19lbs X 10X factor = 190 total lbs of natural foods needed for them to grow from 8” to 9”. See next.

The new fish growth standard theory says the pond has to not have 190 lbs of foods but actually be around 300 lb of food for the YP for them to maintain good SW (6X factor) and then eat more at the 10X amount to go from 8” to 9” long. Will your pond have it available when walleye are also eating some of the same foods as YP? Food shortages mean slow or no growth and maybe loss of body weight – skinny fish. Too many predators spoil the "soup".

2. I planned on placing in nearly 15-20 WE to start (at least two falls from now), but I was going to wait until I a few spawns of perch to do so. This is overkill?
OVERKILL? It all depends. Depends on amount of usable fish foods, plankton production, it’s availability year round, and proper sizes of forages species, proper habitats for WE, water quality as in Happy Water, amount of predation needed, what other predators and how many & their body sizes that are present, plus some factors that don’t immediately come to mind. 15 WE @ 1.0lb(14”) = 15 lb of WE. Each one needs to eat at least 10 lbs of fish to grow from 1lb to 2 lb each. A total of 150 - 200 lbs of eating basically all fish types.

YP are also consumers as mostly predatory nature eating many type of live foods, esp as they grow larger.

Pond Productivity and Carrying Capacity.
WORDS OF CAUTION - One big water quality factor for you to know is if you use pond dye - usu blue. Pond dye reduces the poundage (numbers) of fish the pond can support. The reduction of total pond fish production is usually around one half of the same non-dyed pond. . When the pond develops problems of filamentous algae and submerged “weeds” many advisors as your friends, neighbors, anglers and even the Pros will suggest pond dye to reduce the amount of plant growth.

The amount of plant growth that eventually ALWAYS occurs in ALL ponds depends a lot on the amount of unseen, invisible nutrients that get deposited and accumulate in the ponds. Ponds very efficiently gather nutrients as organic materials and water runoff. Rainwater even has nitrogen in it. 10 geese make the equivalent manure of 1 cow. Many ways nutrients get deposited, accumulate and trapped in a pond.
Pond dye is designed and does decent job to reduce sunlight penetration. ALL plants need sunlight to grow and photosynthesize to move nutrients and foods up the food chain. Reducing the amount and depth of sunlight penetration significantly reduces probably by 50% or more the amount of both submerged plants, phytoplankton and microscopic periphyton. All these are the basis of the food chain that are the basis of the natural food production of the pond. This basically means using the pond dye will cut the fish pounds that the pond can grow naturally by 50%; and maybe a higher percentage reduction depending on the concentration or darkness of the dye.

Water clarity and soil fertility chemistries (nutrients) determine the amount of fish a pond can grow. Ohio DNR fish mgmt book says most ponds will grow around a TOTAL of all fish species 250 lb per acre at a water clarity of around 3ft. Clearer water means fewer fish pounds that the pond will grow AND more light penetration allows the deeper rooted weeds & FA to also grow. .

Hopefully now you should better understand where and how pond dye reduces the food production of the pond. With pond dye and then wanting the pond to grow fish by an all natural food supply, then you will get around half as many pounds of fish the water stained pond can produce pond at its carrying capacity.

For problems of FA and most forms of rooted plant control, I suggest using TP and GCarp to reduce plants, BUT DEFINITELY NOT enough to eliminate all the plants. Having a 15%-25% littoral zone plant growth is a well tested and researched target recommended for producing quality fisheries. FYI - TP & GC when used at the correct density stimulate plant recycling and all plankton production both Phyto and Zoo to grow more fish.

WALLEYE SECTION –
“The WE size to me less important, but still would be cool to have some bigger ones. To me, a 20" WE is big enough. I’d very happy with that size.”

WE in ponds is a doable thing. How big they get is the question.
Here are some articles about WE use in ponds from Pond boss magazine,
PBoss mag Mar-Apr 2003. WALLEYE IN A SMALL POND PRESENT A MAJOR CHALLENGE. B.Cody describes Walleye stocking basics, details of proper forage and numbers management for ponds. High maintenance specie, numbers not for casual pond owners,not very good in 80F+ water, prefer narrow bodied foods in high numbers, proper sizes and ones less active in low light, over abundant forage important, larger WE eat small restocked ones, larger WE more quickly eliminate small forage sizes, improper forages and lack of proper habitat for forages results in 5 yr old 14”-15” WE.
PBoss mag Sept-Oct 2005. WHY WALLEYE? Prof. Cornwell describes basics of walleye and some stocking guidelines from hatchery owner’s perspective with some details of raising fingerlings.
PBoss mag Jan-Feb 2013. WALLEYE STOCKING GUIDELINES. Prof. Cornwell tells about the basic needs of walleye, best stocking sizes, price range of stockers, stocking numbers, growth of fingerlings, spawning and recruitment in ponds. Usu not suggested to stock them in less than 2ac, 10 ft & more for thermal refuge, 8”-10” juveniles as 10-12/ac, mostly hard to catch as a bonus fish
PB mag May-Jun 2013. FISH CONDITION: The Northern Perches. Dr. Willis and Lusk present relative weights and how they apply to yellow perch and walleye. Notes of how size and season affect Wr and when fish are best harvested. What to do when Wr values decrease.
PBoss mag Sep-Oct 2018 . WALLEYE THE OTHER WHITE MEAT. Lusk tells how to have success with walleye in ponds; covers reproduction, numbers stocking, foods, behavior, right density, companion predators, harvest plan, techniques to improve success.
PBoss mag Sep-Oct 2022. WALLEYE IN SMALL WATERS. Lusk tells what it takes for these fish to thrive in small waters even as far south as lower Oklahoma. What habitat is best, prices, attrition, numbers, expected pond sizes, probable pounds per acre. Notes: Tough to grow them as stand alone predator. Great WE type habitat is key and they do best in 30+ac. The better the habitat better they thrive. Advanced 5”-7” ers are commonly avilable and 8”-10 “ are best for survival stocking. You won’t harvest what you stock. How many depends on how happy the water is and how much good walleye food available. Expect most close to 2 lb, a few pushing 3lb and exceptional ones 4lbs. Widely different growth rates in small waters. .
Pond Boss mag Sep-Oct 2023. Beasley @ Solitude Lake Mgmt. CONSIDERING COOL WATER FISH IN A WARM WATER POND CLIMATE? Beasley discusses the needs of cool water fish and if your pond quality is suited for them such as Tiger musky, smallmouth, walleye & yellow perch.

PBoss mag Sept –Oct 2024, WALLEYE IN PONDS. Stocking Strategy. Lusk discusses the benefits and needs of these fish, the two ways to stock them, their best foods, proper habitat, good numbers per acre, compatible species, types of beneficial aeration. Notes : maturity info, fecundity, restock for recruitment, size of foods change as they age, create best habitat for forages, aeration ideas, enhancing habitat, food diversity important, adult poundages best guess 15 lb per acre.

3. If I want to be patient with the YP growth, do they HAVE to be pellet trained to grow larger than 14"?

Probably when grown in water less than 5 ac.
In my experience with YP in ponds, then yes,,, YP will struggle to grow bigger than 14”. On all natural foods and when too crowded YP often top out at 12” This is especially true for the males.
All natural food eating YP grow noticeably slower compared to pellet eaters. Example natural food eating YP growth rate
is usually 2” behind the same year class of YP.

“I really would like to stay away from LMB and SMB. I do not want too many of them and I understand just putting one in addresses that concern, I just don't care for them much personally. I'd really like to stick with WE as my main/only predator but I am open to hearing you out on these for sure. If that's unrealistic please let me know.”

WE - not unrealistic – just more difficult.
As noted in the Walleye Section and in the above magazine articles WE in ponds can be accomplished. It often just means more hands on and attention to management. As in all ponds, the number of predators have to be appropriately matched to the annual forage fish basis. Amen, Amen.

“The HSB do intrigue me. I wouldn't mind those but I have read so much conflicting information on them, I gave up. I read once they take to pellets they stop hunting as much leading to over population and I've read they hunt so much they'll clean you out completely. I'm just not sure what to think of them.” HSB as all fish species have Pros and Cons. Their characteristics for use should fit into the pond goals. Are they a good tool to have in the Pond Tool Box? IMO the biggest benefit is if the predator is not reproducing and always increasing predatory pressures. The other big benefit to HSB if you don’t like them quit ladder stocking them and start fishing them out. Eventually they all die. Can’t do that with LMB, SMB and any reproducing predator.

Quote –“HSB stop hunting as much when eating pellets.” Misinformation.
A wise, very experienced fish manager, PBoss member and owner of Midwest Lake from MO Shawn Banks learned and taught us that HSB will quickly return to eating fish when you quit feeding them pellets. A Simple solution.
My advice. Be very careful of what you read and what and who you believe especially when you are dealing with just local pond owners, etc and not trained, well experienced fishery experts.
If you want to know all about HSB read through, study and believe the testimonies in the long thread in the Pond Boss Archives that deals with all sorts of HSB information.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92629#Post92629

Unfortunately there is no thread yet in the archives about using walleye in ponds probably because of the difficulty and complexity of their survival, growth, proper forage species, and population management. Been there done that several times.

Cody Note - Thanks for the trust.

4-25RedLeg, read that post that Bill typed out and think about it for a day. Re-read it again and see what you missed. Re-read it a few days later and see what you still missed. There is so much information in that post that it can't be comprehended in just one or two readings.

To fully comprehend it, you have to order the back issues of the Pond Boss Magazine that Bill referenced, and read those articles. Many, many pond owners have no idea of all the intricacies of life in a pond, how changing one thing in the pond may change 3 other things in the pond that are totally unconnected (supposedly) and how much a fish's food intake has to change as that fish grows. Plus exactly how much natural food it actually takes to get fish to grow and keep on growing. The majority of pond owners don't know enough about their ponds to know what questions need to be asked. Kudos to you for finding this place, and wanting to learn. The only thing that I will ask is that you don't make this a short term visit. Don't just get the info that you think you need and run. It will help everyone here and also some people that haven't even found this place yet if you would keep giving us updates on what you did to the pond, how things are progressing and what you are seeing change in your pond as time goes on.

Bill has a Doctorate in identifying pond algae, and part of his business is managing ponds. We have very few people on here that post that are actually in the business of managing and stocking ponds for people. I would say that there are now 3 pond managers that have posted within the last year. Bob Lusk, Bill and myself. I am making sure that I save what Bill posted to re-read myself, and will refer to it again later.

I agree with Bill in asking "What is your definition of massive"? Remember, we are talking about something that has a finite life span, and yes, fish do grow their whole life, they don't grow at the same rate their whole life. They slow down as they get older. As the fish population in your pond ages and matures, the carrying capacity of the pond also has to be considered. Research carrying capacity for ponds and see how that changes if the fish are supplementally fed and what a properly designed aeration system will do to that carrying capacity.

I think Bill is understating the "trophy" YP. I think a 19" YP would be the equivalent of catching a 22 pound LMB. 17" YP would be like an 18# LMB. While I have heard a lot of people say they caught a YP over 16", I have yet had a person say "Yes, I did, here's a picture of it on a bump board to show it's length".

If you are re-thinking about supplementally feeding the YP in the pond, research the different brands of fish food. There are a lot of poor foods on the market, and really only less than a handful of good to great foods that recreational pond owners can get for their ponds. Be aware that a cheaper price per bag can be a more costly food. Confused? Say you could buy a 50# bag of fish food for $44.98 or a 40# bag of food for $69.00. What would be cheaper for you to feed? What if I were to tell you that you'd spend $3.71 per pound of fish grown vs. $2.37 per pound of fish grown by using the "cheaper" food? Which one would actually be cheaper?

One thing I have learned over the years is that the smaller the fish, the more it is affected by rapid changes when moving or transporting or stocking. A few years ago I picked up 5.000 or 6.000 3.25" WE. From hatchery to transport tanks the water was the same temperature and pH. At the first drop off point the water they went into was the same pH and temp (I am assuming - we didn't test the pH but we DID test water temp). The 2nd drop off point the pH was the same but the water temp was 1.3°F different. That temp difference killed about 1,300 of them before I realized what was happening. I quickly matched the water temp and had no more issues.

Regarding the minnows for your pond. Get a digital scale and weigh the minnows that you transfer. You need to know the weight to accurately know if more need to be added. Going by minnow numbers means that you have to know their length. That is unrealistic for recreational pond owners. Even the fish hatcheries don't measure the length of their fish. They have fish graders, which is a box with stainless dowel rods spaced "x" apart. That "X" distance corresponds to a certain species and certain length of that species. Then they take 100, 200, 300 fish that they actually count and weigh them. Then they record that number for that lot of fish and when you go to buy 2,000 fish they calculate what that number would weigh and they weigh what you are getting. That works for every fish except smaller quantities of large fish like TGC or adult LMB. Growing trophy fish in a smaller pond is VERY difficult on natural forage, just because of the carrying capacity of the pond. The predator population would have to be relatively low, so catch rates would be low as well.

Regarding the HSB comment. If you heard that comment on a Facebook forum, be VERY aware of who you listen to. If you want to take someone's advice, ask them if they are a pond management company or if they are just an individual who owns a pond. If they say they don't own a pond "but this is what I read" just say thanks and I wouldn't bank on any of their information. If they are a pond owner, ask them about their pond, and fish in it, size and what they are feeding. Sometimes you can read between the lines. I bet they don't even know how HSB are "made" and grown on a commercial scale. I only know of one producer of HSB on a large commercial scale. Google "Keo Fish Farm, Keo AR" and read about them.

Regarding the dye, I tell my customers that it has it's place but if you are wanting any normal type of fish growth in their pond that if they use dye they also should be supplementally feeding a good commercial fish food because using dye cuts out a lot of the bottom building blocks in the food chain pyramid in a pond.

Bill,

First off, thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed response. I can tell you put a lot of effort into that post and I genuinely appreciate it. Your explanation is helpful for me to read through.

Based on your input, I’m trying to adjust my plan a bit so I’m not relying entirely on walleye for perch control and instead incorporate some predator diversity.

Right now I’m leaning toward something along these lines for my ~0.8 acre pond:

Forage base first:
- Fathead minnows
- Golden shiners
I may add in other things other than minnows if I need them.

Primary fish:
- 250 Yellow Perch (4–6")

Massive to me would anything 12” and up. Id be very happy with a perch that size.

Predators (non-reproducing focus):
- 1 Smallmouth Bass
- 3–4 Hybrid Striped Bass
- 2–3 Walleye

One important factor for me is that this pond will also be my household water supply. I working with my county on this and have a very reputable installer. Because of that I’m trying to keep the system as natural and clean as possible. I plan to avoid pond dye and chemical treatments if I can and instead manage vegetation biologically where possible (for example tilapia if needed). My goal is to keep the water as clear and healthy as possible.

Thanks again for sharing your experience and taking the time to explain all of this. I’ve learned a lot from your posts.

Absolutely, I will be reading and Re-reading this entire thread for a very long time. I’m trying to be a sponge regarding all of this.

4-25R says

""the system as natural and clean as possible.""
That is a pretty difficult thing to do when wanting to produce an "regular quality" fishery. The two goals are at opposite ends of the pond management spectrum. High quality fishery - high nutrient inputs - high amount of plant growth potential . Low nutrient inputs - less plant growths and a low number (poundage) fishery. You can produce some high quality fish in clear water. However you cannot produce very many fish when growing in clear water. So goes the nutrients, so goes the fishery. Plus in a clear water system, each year those reproducing fish numbers have to be carefully managed to low numbers so each one gets plenty of food to eat for growth. Too many fish or more fish require lots more food.

See this Archives thread about pond Carrying Capacity
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92440#Post92440


The more turbid the water the more presence of suspended solids of many different types that the household water treatment system has to remove. Treatment system filter changes are more frequent the cloudier the water becomes.

I help manage with least chemical management all types of ponds, each with a different goal of water clarity. For some of the household water use systems the water clarity ranges from 6ft to 14ft. Those clearest water ponds do not get any fish food inputs. Fish feeding inputs result in measurable nutrient increases that increases the entire pond productivity, reduces water clarity which is their purpose. Some of the house water use ponds I help with do have good fisheries. They often will feed around only of bag of food per year and focus on low panfish (YP) recruitment so all remaining panfish grow quickly for some harvest every one to two years. They also carefully monitor and minimize the water inputs of windblown organic material inputs (nutrient sources). Some owners will Feed just enough to keep a slightly higher number of quality panfish growing. We have learned that involves the CORRECT amount of predatory pressure for properly thinning each year's recruitment. Manual thinning of panfish by beach seining and/or trapping is often needed. Those pond's are mainly focused on proper panfish harvest not predator harvest. The predators are just mainly tools used in the 'pond tool box'. It is important to know the predatory habits of each predator and what they are capable of eating each year so predation pressure primarily regulates the panfish recruitment for the goals of the fishery.

The clearest water ponds do not grow very many fish due to low nutrients that regulate the entire pond ecosystem, Those ponds have unique fisheries of top down types of fish management and the allowed vegetation is designed and managed to not get overly abundant. Rooted plants compete for nutrients with plankton. Clearest water ponds have some type of nutrient absorbing submerged vegetation that reduces suspended microscopic plankton. Basically one cannot grow lots of fish in clear water due to the pond's low carrying capacity and low nutrient content plus the owner has to continually focus on minimizing organic and nutrient inputs. Ponds are nutrient accumulating systems; once nutrients are in they are trapped in the basin and very, very difficult to physically remove. Nutrients grow plants. The more nutrients - the more plants present that include the planktons. Clearest waters almost always somewhere have low nutrient content and some type of submerged vegetation types that naturally compete with plankton and filamentous algae that are the main cause less water clarity (transparency).

Depending on the amount of the desired fish harvest (goals), if I had had your new pond, I would know about and consider stocking forage minnows/shiners, ONLY female YP and few if any predators. IMO Mixed gender YP are for goals of a higher annual harvest. The female only concept is done with LMB fisheries to grow trophy LMB. All female YP would grow big relatively quickly depending on population numbers and food quantity. Every YP caught would be a close to trophy fish. The stockers begin as 7"-8" fish as a recognizable female. Good catch and release angling is possible, Numbers management is easily controlled by YOU not the fish. Harvest some and then replace that number with appropriate fish that are harvested. Problem is with this concept is you have to find a special farm that will sell you just female YP. They do exist but are very rare. Whenever you decide to stop regularly buying just females just stock some mixed sex YP and then deal with all the recruitment issue controls and predator management. Starting with just female YP, you can always later go to mixed sex fishery. You can't do that when starting with a mixed gender fishery.

Bill I copied the excellent info from above into the CC archive.

Bill:

I don't know of any hatchery that will sell Female only YP. Who does, and what do you think they will cost?

I agree 1,000% about if a pond is used for household water and the pond needs to be as clean as possible that changes the fishery expectations for that pond completely opposite from a regular non-water source pond.

From a fish suppliers perspective, it isn't feasible (without a hefty delivery charge) to deliver 10 fish of 2-3 different species to a pond. For me, now with diesel prices @ $5/gallon, I will have to add a fuel surcharge to my free fish delivery within "X" miles' policy. There are days when I can fill up the 30 gallon fuel tank 3 times. When I pick up fish that could be filling it up 7 times in less than 48 hours. That's just to get the fish here. Then it's typically another 2-3 tanks to deliver the fish.

So to get those predatory fish 4-25RedLeg would most likely have to go pick those fish up and have them bagged.

Readers -

At this point in time, using or finding only female YP is not at all easy nor practically feasible. I know only a couple places that specialize in selling primarily yellow perch. They will sell me females for a premium price plus tip. Currently I will sell limited numbers of only female YP. All Female YP are essentially very difficult to obtain, nor can you get very many at one time. Using all females of YP or LMB is a very unique situation requiring unique methods. Recognizing gender of fish is easiest for BG, then YP, then hardest to gender are LMB -SMB. Plus one needs to do very good homework with experience to be able to recognize male and female yellow perch in order to then accurately verify what gender is going into the pond. Been there done that several times with mistakes made. Not many regular pond owners can or will do it.

The main point of the only females concept is to highly emphasize how critical that accurate populations control is for growing highest quality fish in pond habitats. Accurate population control applies to forage species and sport fish. Using only female perch is to strongly emphasize how very important it is to significantly restrict the recruitment of young perch for the very best results for having the highest quality perch population. It is careful population control for optimum growth rates. This applies to growing all species of fish. ALWAYS remember that concept and try hard to incorporate that fact into your fishery.