Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Soil questions Lime for Pond Bed

I am having lime delivered to my lake site in the next week or two and will get it spread in the bottom of the lake before we start filling it up. I was advised to put about 5 tons per acre but have not been able to get soil testing done yet and likely wont be able to in the window of time I have before the lime is delivered. I do know that the general analysis from the lime mine shows a minimum CCE of 70%. Without having a soil test done and knowing that the soil is predominately red clay, does the 5 tons per acre rate sound about right for our conditions?

Depending on who your advisor was their estimate could have been ????... If it were me I would get a second or better 3rd opinion because you do not have a current soil test. . Maybe call a local pond mgmt group or call the area Soil & Water conservation district office or your best choice for good information is the area University Extension office for a 2nd or 3rd professional opinion of what the average local soils of your area need for lime application for growing good crops. Another opinion could come from a local farm Argriculural Supply dealer / elevator. Three opinions would give you a better estimate compared to just one opinion. Be aware that the need for additional lime to boost the lake alkalinity to produce good plankton blooms will need to occur EVERY several years. Lime naturally disipates (leaches) and is not a one time addition. When talking to the Univ Extension specialist or Agri Supply dealer ask about the needed frequency that farmers have to add lime to the LOCAL farm fields. This will give you a good idea of the needed frequency of adding lime to the lake. If it were my lake, I would be getting alkalinity water testing done every 2 or 3 years. You want water alkalinity to ALWAYS be 50 ppm(mg/L) or greater for good pond overall productivity.

CCE = A 70% CCE for lime fertilizer means the material is less effective than pure calcium carbonate (CaCO3) and will require a larger application amount to achieve the same neutralizing effect. For example, to get 1,000 pounds of CCE, you would need to apply about 1,429 pounds of a 70% CCE product. This 70% value represents the neutralizing value of the lime, which is also influenced by its particle size (fineness).

In central MS with red dirt 5 tons will work. Adding more lime than needed will be a positive - no harm even if it is to much.

Central MS has all kinds of soil types. 'State says: "Ponds in the Delta generally do not need additional lime, and ponds in the Black Belt and thick and thin loess soils need only small amounts. Ponds in the red clay hills of north and central Mississippi usually need 2 tons of lime per acre, and the sandy soils of South Mississippi usually need 2 to 3 tons of lime per acre."

TLDR: 5 tons/acre sounds like a lot.

You only get one good chance to lime the pond bottom (absent draining). It is much easier to put in lime now vs once the pond fills.

5 tons sounds pretty standard for red clay in MS. That stuff is usually super acidic. Since your CCE is only 70%, you actually need a bit more than the high-grade stuff anyway to get the same results. Just make sure you disk it into the soil a bit if you can before the water goes in.

Question for Bill Codys response, the surrounding farms, crop growing, lime requirements I would think, wouldn't be a very good indicator as to how much lime would be required on average because of the fact that this pond has had all the upper soils and clays removed in the construction of the pond?

Doesn't the soil at a lower elevations that has been buried for many yrs without any exposure to the elements test a good bit different then surface topsoils?
Just thinking out loud here, not much experience on the subject.

IMO comparing the lime requirements of a clay subsoil of a pond basin to surface growing crops I think will give just 'ball park' estimates. The clay subsoils 'could' have a higher pH and more calcium present than the surface topsoils due to topsoils having more organic decomposiiton creating humic acid and less calcium leaching and added plant calcium extraction. If one wants the best answer, do a soil test of the pond basin. These tests are often free or very low cost at agricultural supply facilities who usually sell lime.

Remember that lime additions to ponds and farm fields to maintain the proper alkalinity / pH need to be done on a regular basis. Periodic testing determines the need for lime additions.

Agree with Bill. Get your soil samples for testing from the pond bottom.

Five tons per acre doesn’t sound completely out of line, especially with red clay, but I’d be a little cautious about treating that as a fixed rate without a soil test. The CCE of 70% is also worth taking into account since that isn’t the same as applying 100% pure calcium carbonate.

If you can’t get the soil tested before the lime arrives, I’d probably check with whoever supplied the recommendation and ask whether the 5 tons/acre figure was already adjusted for the 70% CCE. It might also be worth getting a sample tested afterward, so you have a better idea of where your pH and alkalinity actually ended up once the pond is filled.

Red clay can vary quite a bit from one site to another, so I’d rather have a test to work from than keep adding lime based on a general rate. Hopefully someone here with a similar clay-bottom lake can give you a more specific comparison.