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#575916 08/07/25 11:24 PM
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This is just a curiosity question, but I’ve just always wanted to know. Have pure Florida bass ever been stocked and grown to mega trophy size in Kentucky? Referring to 12+ lbs.

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I'm not sure that it's ever been done in private waters.

I'm sure you have looked this up but the Kentucky state record for largemouth bass is 14 pounds, 9.5 ounces. This record was set by Mark Ward on April 19, 2019, at Highsplint Lake in Harlan County. So I would say yes. Bob Lusk says any LMB over 10# must have Florida genetics.


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That’s exactly what I was thinking as well. Does anyone have any thoughts on what the top end of an F1 in Kentucky/TN region is? I’ve always figured 10 lbs but that’s just a guess.

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I for a very rare time do not agree with what Bob Lusk says. Unless Learnboutfish has taken Lusk's comment out of context.
"Bob Lusk says any LMB over 10# must have Florida genetics."
These northern states have state record LMB over 10 pounds or close to 10 lbs. . I bet big money these northern state record fish did not have Florida bass genetics.
OH = 13.18 lbs
MI = 11.5 lbs
IN = 14.7 lbs
IL = 13.06 lbs
WI = 11.1 lbs
IA = 10.4 lbs
NE = 10.6 lbs
KS = 11.7 lbs
PA = 11.3 lbs
NY = 11.3 lbs
NJ = 11.8 lbs.
MN = 8.9 lbs
SD = 9.3 lbs
ND = 8.4 lbs

You feed, feed feed, them and give them constant high quality water year round they will grow beyond your expectations.
Northern largemouth bass will grow to really big sizes if they are not over crowded, and always have easy to get high quality food, food, food. One of our Forum Monitors Bruce Conello has proven this in his Nebraska quarry. Maybe a forum member can post a picture of one of Bruce's hand fed big LMB. I need some help here moderators.

If one is concerned about bass catchability and their tendency to become hook smart ,,, I would not use any Florida bass genetics in a pond that has a northern latitude or central USA such as KY. IMO Florida LMB genetics in a fish for their best survival and ability to grow big fast relies heavily on them having a long growing season with water above 50F plus an UNLIMITED amount of food during all year even when they decide to have an EASY snack in water below 50F. The above state record fish show that big bass over 8 lbs do not need Florida genetics and they are less prone to becoming hook smart. Hook smart fish of any species is a definite concern for pond owners.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/11/25 08:00 PM.

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Bill Cody #575948 08/11/25 12:35 PM
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This is VERY interesting and I really appreciate you posting it. If these weights are the upper end of northern bass, what do you think the low end of a Florida bass is (in a middle of the country state like Kentucky)?

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Following, this is a timely & interesting thread to myself as well...A quick background: I live in an HOA, Cooley's Rift, Monteagle TN. Cooley's is located on the Cumberland plateau between Nashville & Chattanooga. Our community lake is a 54 acre, clear mountain lake. It was originally stocked in 2001 with the standard Tennessee template, LMB, BG, CC. No additional stocking occurred again until 2018. Peak LMB catch activity was 2006 - 2010 when 10 pound LMB were being caught but unfortunately harvested. LMB population today is stunted with an occasional 4 -6 pounder being caught.

We have stocked 19,000 CNBG since 2018. Our original, and only, LMB stocking were Florida's. We plan to stock LMB either next fall or spring 2027. My wish is Northerns. Good size potential and less hook shy in our clear water. Northerns are available from an Alabama hatchery 120 miles away who we have purchased the CNBG from with good results.

Thanks to Bill Cody for his exceptional advice on many topics, it is very much appreciated!

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I’d love for Bob to jump in on this thread and give his thoughts. This has turned into a fascinating thread.

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I know Red Hills has the Titan Maxx line of genetics for Floridas. Does a similar breeding exist for “best of the best genetics” for pure Northerns genetics or for F1s?

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Bill is correct. What Bob is saying is (see brand new PB mag) that northerns don't consistently get to 10 lbs like Fla fish can. Even half the Fla fish don't get big - males are small. 60 to 70% of LMB size is dependent on conditions and the rest is genetics. Plus there is still a lot to learn about F-1 and F-X LMB. Many of the Texas share a lunker LMB are LMB intergrades with a high % Fla but some Northern genes. In both Northerns and Fla its not just genes but more importantly gene expression (size is not always expressed). Also keep in mind that the upper geographical limits of pure Fla LMB is uncertain. In one study in WI they all died due to cold. I would not personally stock pure Fla LMB north of I-40 or at high elevation as the results would be less than desired.

Cody Note: For a more conservative and better long term survival success, I would not stock pure FLMB north of a horizontal line of Nortnern OK, AR, TN & NC. And even then during an unusual winter cold spell one could lose some of the best FLMB specimens that would negate years of time spend and years of good bass growing value. When the ability of growing big bass exists for using other strains of LMB or even hybrid striped bass, I do not trust Nature's unpredictable rath for taking a chance of using winter sensitive FLMB as far north as the I-40 interstate line.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/12/25 07:23 PM. Reason: Added bold fpor emphasis















ewest #575962 08/12/25 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ewest
Bill is correct. What Bob is saying is (see brand new PB mag) that northerns don't consistently get to 10 lbs like Fla fish can. Even half the Fla fish don't get big - males are small. 60 to 70% of LMB size is dependent on conditions and the rest is genetics. Plus there is still a lot to learn about F-1 and F-X LMB. Many of the Texas share a lunker LMB are LMB intergrades with a high % Fla but some Northern genes. In both Northerns and Fla its not just genes but more importantly gene expression (size is not always expressed). Also keep in mind that the upper geographical limits of pure Fla LMB is uncertain. In one study in WI they all died due to cold. I would not personally stock pure Fla LMB north of I-40 or at high elevation as the results would be less than desired.

Great conversation, I must have missed the key word "consistently". I would certainly never intentionally misquote anyone. Definitely not Bob on his own forum smile

According to the Oklahoma State Fishery manager where my LMB came from, they provide Northern LMB. Since that's where my fish came from this is awesome news to me!!


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Here is an extended answer to your simple question.
Kentucky asks -
Quote
If these weights are the upper end of northern bass, what do you think the low end of a Florida bass is (in a middle of the country state like Kentucky)?

This is a very good question. My final answer is at the end of this verbose post. To verify we are discussing the Low End for length and weight of an ALL female FL bass population before they die. Qualifier - I am not real familiar with environmental stockings of FLMB nor F1 LMB.

My answer is - It All Depends on several if not numerous important points for growing trophy size LMB.
1. Main Factor is what percent of the stocker FLMB will survive central Kentucky's future winter conditions. They have to survive the winter cold conditions and not get overly stressed. My main concern is taking lots of effort and time to get the FLMB growing to 5, 6, 7, or 8 lbs and then have a harsh winter occur at the pond and have a significant percentage of the all females die. Very Risky Business IMO especially when other big bass options are available. But none the less, a big learning curve will be obtained

Winter is always the hardest time for fish to survive. Some winter mortality of FLMB will IMO definitely occur in central KY; how much is the big question????. Weather extremes seem to be more commonplace. The F1 genetic combination of stocker bass (northern LMBXFLMB) IMO would provide better overall results long term and still make it more feasible to grow a 10 lb bass. Finding all female F1 LMB would be the initial biggest hurdle for your all female bass project. PLUS – I think if you use FLMB or F1 females,,,, be prepared to supplemental or periodically stock akd ladder stocking some females due to attrition from several forms of mortality that will occur during the all female big bass growing project. Total bass mortality could be 10 to 15% per year. Angling of bass is a big stress producer especially as they age older. Know that not all dead fish float.

2.. What factors will influence FLMB for years of growth toward the 10lb size in KY? One point in favor of FLMB in KY is they ‘could’ repeat ‘could’ live longer than the comparable FLMB living in the most southern states. Living longer could allow the bass to be alive longer while adding to its final body weight compared to a shorter life span of Southern growing FLMB. This is an energetics thing where the rate of growth tends to shorten life span. Slower growing organisms tend to live longer than those experiencing fast growth. DO WE KNOW GOOD INFORMATION FOR THE AVERAGE OR “NORMAL” LIFE SPAN OF NORTHERN VERSUS FLMB??

3. The FLMB ability to survive a future severe winter cold spell in your region of Kentucky. IMO older the bass becomes the more vulnerable it is to temperature extremes. Some will live, and some will not survive due to natural genetic variation of temperature tolerance of the FLMB species genetics. Each specie with DNA has numerous aspects of some natural genetic variability. Natural genetic variation exists in all life forms even the COVID virus.

4. Since FLMB will have southern LMB genetics will they not be as hungry or not eat as much when the pond water temperatures drop below 60F. I use 60F versus 50F because the FLMB are naturally adapted or evolved to southern winter water temps and not the common 50F temp that is often used for fish feeding and growth. Do you know how many days your water temperature is 60F or below?? Bass not eating means not growing and probably beginning the loss of some weight that needs to be regained before growth can again occur when the temperature again gets above 60F. In water colder than 60F for FL bass their metabolism slows down more than a northern LMB who tolerate and feed okay when water is 50F. Below 50F FLMB would be more lethargic and likely not eat compared to the northern LMB winter feeding behavior. My angling experiences and fish feeding sessions prove this fact. When FLMB and all fish are temperature stressed this is not healthy for their well being. IMO that is why many FLMB die during winter conditions; due to impacts of winter low temperature stressors.
However,,, on the other end of the water temperature spectrum story, the FLMB in KY will not have the reduced feeding periods during the high water temperatures above 90F that are common in the Southern states. Water temps above 90F are said to cause LMB to be lethargic and reduce the food intake of LMB and probably also the FLMB.


5. Good habitat is not for anglers catching LMB but for good diversity and proper amount of habitat is needed for it’s ability for growing more forages to feed the FLMB for optimum growth rate/s. This is important for getting the bass to the big or trophy size before they die of stressors of old age.

6. Forage diversity is important. The numbers of good types forage foods to grow big bass vary with the season. Diverse types of forage species produce proper amounts of the best sizes of food/s each season of the year. Optimum feeding sessions during each season allows LMB to get the best and most efficient weight gain for the least amount of energy expended for number of organisms eaten. Optimal Foraging Theory. The bigger a LMB gets larger easy catch food items should be commonly available to produce the best most efficient bass growth. Vulnerability of the forage food/s to be captured and eaten is an influence on how well the bass can catch food and then grow optimally. It usually takes several strikes for a bass to capture its food. Each travel session and strike attempt expends or consumes energy and reduces its growth potential.

7. Food quality . Research has shown that the different species of food items or species eaten by LMB have different protein and fat contents. Both amount of protein and fat are very important for best growth of bass. High quality foods. Note that you might likely have to supplimentally stock some high food value trout each fall to help the bass better endure the winter conditions. Trout stocking in CA are responsible for growing the biggest California LMB.

8. Food availability. Proper sizes and numbers of good items need to be continually abundant so LMB have short time periods without food in the belly. Best growing bass have full bellies EACH DAY. Dave Davidson says a bass should be able to while it is asleep awake with a full belly. This means LOTS of PROPER forage foods ALWAYS available.

9. Last but definately NOT least is annual water quality conditions. This is very important for several reasons. 1. Good dissolved oxygen throughout the entire water column reduces stress for the bass. Stress reduces growth. 2. Good water chemistries supporting proper plankton blooms 3. . Plankton blooms should have minimal percentages of Cyanobacteria aka bluegreen algae that contain low quality food value comprising the basis of the food chain. Bluegreen ‘algae’ blooms have overall low food value for the entire pond food web. As goes the phytoplankton community composition this controls the quality of the food available for the entire upper food chain or food web. Having good phytoplankton species blooming during summer ALWAYS produces the best fisheries.

Having said all this,,, if stocking ONLY female FLMB and you are lucky for mild winter weather conditions and some survive 9 to 11 years, I think the “low end” of the weight of those LowEnd bass in the all female FLMB population should be around 7 - 8 pounds before they die. This is because I have learned from my experiences with all female fish populations that not all females have the same growth potential, just as not all male humans do not grow to be 7ft tall despite all being the same specie or are even as brothers from the same parents. Natural variability of all species.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/12/25 08:45 PM.

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Such great information Bill Cody! Really appreciate you taking the time for an in depth answer.

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I just looked up KY’s state record bass. Almost 15 lbs. It showed an aerial of the pond (they called it a lake in the video, but I’d call it a pond) it was caught out of in rual KY. Just hard to imagine that tiny public “lake” had Florida genetics in it.

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Bill's 9 point post makes you realize how difficult & expensive it is to grow trophy fish. So much is required to happen at the correct times in the cycle...Adequate supply of $ is important.

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Ya, that 9 point post solidifies a lot of things I think is easy for most of us to gloss over. It's like they say in sports; gains happen where hard work, nutrition, and recovery meet. One column fails and the whole thing lowers. Good thread!


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I forgot to include one very important point or comments for this all female bass growing adventure - CARRYING CACACITY. When I get some free time I will return to comment on it. I doubt or wonder if the15 lb state record KY LMB had Flordia genetics. Good exceptional northern genetic composition with very good amounts of daily adequate foods to allow a full belly of food, but doubtful in my reasoning for having strong Florida species genetics.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/13/25 07:13 AM.

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Have epigenetics been covered? I know mammals will express certain genes generationally. Lets say a population of whitetail deer has had 10 generations of poverty. Never enough food and always high stress due to predation. The bucks will still grow antlers, but the genes to grow really large bodies and large antlers will be turned off. Conversely, a population of deer who's had 10 generations of excess food and low stress will measure larger in both aspects. The young are born with those genes turned on.

Do fish exhibit the same? It seems I've read on here that a "stunted" pond is showing this.


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This is a past Cutting Edge article out of Pond Boss mag (below the definition) - subscribe to the mag if you haven't already.


Adaptation refers to the evolutionary process by which organisms adjust to their environment, while epigenetics involves changes in gene expression that do not alter the DNA sequence.
Adaptation can occur through both genetic mutations and epigenetic changes, with the latter often providing a rapid response to environmental challenges.

Epigenetics allows organisms to respond dynamically to environmental conditions without altering the original DNA, facilitating adaptation and speciation.

In some cases, epigenetic changes can lead to rapid adaptation, contrasting with the slower process of genetic mutation.


In summary, while adaptation is a broader concept that encompasses both genetic and epigenetic mechanisms, epigenetics specifically focuses on the epigenetic changes that can facilitate adaptation.





Adaptation (environment) vs. Evolution (genetics) in Fish


On The Pond Boss Forum recently there have been discussions on adaptation vs. evolution. This conversation centered around how do fish change, what is the mechanism (environment or genetics) and how long does it take. In Science Class we all learned about Darwin’s theories regarding Evolution. We were taught that Evolution is a slow gradual process. Darwin wrote, "…Natural selection acts only by taking advantage of slight successive variations; she can never take a great and sudden leap, but must advance by short and sure, though slow steps." Parts of Darwin's Theory of Evolution are now a theory in crisis in light of the recent tremendous advances in molecular biology, biochemistry and genetics. Darwin’s prediction was right on a geological scale (Earth’s age) but it has since been shown that evolution of species can happen much faster. In bacteria and insects, single generation change is known to occur. In more advanced species (fish and larger creatures), it was thought that things are more gradual, but still, do occur in sudden bursts.

While evolution was thought to be a slow process adaptation refers to the relatively quick process where through phenotypic plasticity certain groups or individuals change to be better suited to their environment and habitat. The thought is change is needed quickly so that they can survive and maintain normal function. In a prior Cutting Edge issue we discussed this concept described in The Effect of Vegetation Density on Juvenile Bluegill Diet and Growth in the Journal of Freshwater Ecology 2012, 1–11 by Daniel E. Shoup, Michael A. Nannini and David H. Wahl.

In that study environmental conditions during early Bluegill development shaped individuals’ phenotypes so they were more adaptive to the conditions they encountered. Plasticity has been shown to effect sunfish (Lepomis) shape, feeding and behavior in some cases. Here, by the end of the three month experiment, bluegill from the low vegetation ponds were significantly longer – twenty (20%) percent than bluegill from the high vegetation ponds. Were the long bluegill that fed in open water that way because longer fish can swim better in open water and were the shorter bluegill that way because being short allows them to maneuver around the weeds better? In this case a clear finding of adaptation in Bluegill in only three months.

Adaptation (through phenotypic plasticity) is the emergence of new characteristics in order to best suit the changes in the environment or habitat. Adaptation arises at the phenotypic level under the influence of environmental factors on the expression of the existing genes. It has become increasingly clear however, that phenotypic plasticity actually represents a fundamental component of evolutionary change. More questions arise like - what time period is required and what is the mechanism to get from adaptation to genetic change? Now some new thoughts – that genetics can be changed in early development through environmental influences. Similar to what we saw in the above study on Bluegill.
A recent study titled, Using Teleost Fish to Discern Developmental Signatures of Evolutionary Adaptation From Phenotypic Plasticity in Brain Structure by Zachary J. Hall and Vincent Tropepe in Front. Neuroanat. 14:10, 18 March 2020 is illustrative. This study looked at brain development in Teleost fish (ray-finned fishes) like those common in ponds.
In the past the impact of evolution on the brain has been studied by comparing the sizes of brain regions between species or in some cases in the same species. However, more recent work has demonstrated that environmental factors, such as sensory experience, influence brain region sizes intraspecifically (in the same species). This brings into question the distinction between evolution (genetic) and adaptive (environment) sources of brain anatomy variation in fish species.
The authors examined how newer fish research indicates the capacity for the environment to shape brain structure similarly within a species. Some of the first evidence demonstrating the capacity of the environment to shape fish brain structure came from comparisons between related wild-caught and lab-reared fish populations. The noted studies finding Salmon reared in a hatchery exhibit reduced olfactory bulb (smell function) and brain size compared to age-matched wild salmon from the same genetic cohort and also finding that first generation female guppies reared in the laboratory from wild parents exhibited reduced fore-brain and vision processing compared to wild-caught fish. Because the laboratory environment generally lacks much of the sensory stimuli animals would encounter in the wild, these findings suggest that brain development in fish is influenced by sensorimotor experiences. In another study both male guppies collected from regions of high predation and laboratory-reared male guppies exposed to sight and smell predator cues during development have larger brains as adults compared to unexposed males.

Another more recent method of studding fish brain development has been to compare fish populations of the same species inhabiting different environments. These studies revealed habitat-dependent brain size findings similar to studies comparing lab- and wild-bred populations. For example, whole-brain size is larger in sunfish that occupy a littoral shoreline habitat vs. those that live in a pelagic habitat.
The discovery of continuing adult brain neurogenesis in mammals demonstrates that adaptive processes continue to shape the brain well beyond embryonic development. Because fish exhibit extensive neurogenesis in the brain throughout life as compared to mammals it is more likely a life-long process for brain growth in fish. These developments in embryonic and whole life brain development in fish resulting from environmental conditions (adaptation) is proof that adaptive change (through phenotypic plasticity) is quicker , more powerful and far more prevalent than previously thought.

Last edited by ewest; 08/13/25 11:56 AM.















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Bill Cody #575971 08/13/25 12:10 PM
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I’m glad you’re going to discuss carrying capacity. Because I’ve been curious about this. My new pond build will be about 2.5 acres and I’m wanting to go with the “less is more approach” in my female LMB stocking regimen.

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See this while waiting on Bill - from the archives Carrying Capacity

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92440#Post92440
















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I have been working on this on and off for over a week.
Several topics are repeated for better understanding of the topic. Repetition helps with learning. This whole thing reminds me of one of the term papers that I wrote for college courses. It is a little more than twice the length that Pond Boss editor likes to have as articles in the PBoss magazine!. I may need to return to this essay and adjust some wording, spellings, etc. .

CARRYING CAPACITY is based or controlled by alkalinity, soil fertility and amount of available dissolved nutrients,,,, plus water and sunshine. All combined they eventually grow pounds of fish. CCapacity is the pond’s ability to grow fish pounds without some form of additional or added nutrient content or foods. Adding additional items is actually a form of aquaculture and it boosts the C Capacity above the natural level.
When the carrying capacity of a pond is reached, fish growth will slow down until some fish die or are removed or enough more food is added to allow fish to produce added growth i.e. pellets. Removing fish allows remaining fish to grow larger and or become more numerous based on foods within the pond system. Balance of predator and prey items determine how the sizes of fish are arranged that compose the Carrying Capacity.

Carrying capacity (CC). - Carrying capacity is the animal load a system that can be NATURALLY supported and grow based on the soil fertility and watershed’s ability to grow food/s within the system. A pond’s CCapacity is the system’s natural or native ability to grow fish. It has limits based on its ability to grow food.

Carrying capacity also occurs on the land ecosystems. Each acre/s of grassed area based on the soil fertility will only support a specific number of grazers such as rabbits, sheep, horses, or cattle. Over grazing damages the vitality of the acreage.

CCapacity at the basic pond level is based on alkalinity, soil productivity, watershed and amount of available dissolved nutrients within the basin or system. The amount of nutrients in the system and how they are moved upward in the food chain determine the AMOUNT of food produced to feed all the consumers and ultimately the entire fishery. Plants of many various types or forms are the food producers and the animals are consumers. The amount of nutrients in turn, directly results in the TOTAL production capacity, which is the amount (usually numbers and pounds) of animals that a system can produce; sometimes called the current standing crop. Standing Crop is how the weight is matched or expressed as lengths, numbers and total biomass. The Standing Crop regularly fluctuates usually due to the additions and losses of fish or animals within the system.

Carrying capacity as fish productivity is expressed as total weight and is usually reached or achieved in the first 2.5 to three years. Thereafter the fishery weight or CCapacity stays basically the same amount, however the sizes and numbers of individual fishes is what changes. Fish grow, fish reproduce, fish get eaten, fish die. Carrying capacity of total fish poundage stays near the ability of the pond to maintain this total fish weight. Productivity can be increased by some sort of increase such as fertilization somehow introduced or adding some sort of edible food materials such as fish pellets or animal items as forage.

When the carrying capacity of the pond is reached, fish growth will slow down UNTIL some fish die or are removed. Always keep this in mind. Removing fish as consumers then causes less crowding, and more living space and then some available food/s that were previously being used by those now absent fish. Losses of fish allows remaining fish to get more to eat and then grow larger and or become more numerous. Balance of prey and predators determines how the numbers are expressed that composes the poundage as CCapacity.


Fish need enough regular foods to maintain their standard weight (SW or maintenance weight). When fish lose weight due to lack of food they need to gain that weight back to again achieve the Standard Weight before they can grow longer/larger. When they then eat to be above this SW amount,,, they add weight and grow.

When a fish is able to be at Standard Weight it is ready for added growth, the needed amount of food consumed is said to be an EXTRA around 10 more lbs of forage items to gain each added pound of body weight. The nutrition value of the eaten foods influences the amount of food needed to gain that extra pound of body weight.
Example - a one pound bass to stay at maintenance weight or SW it needs 6 lbs of food each year for each pound it weighs. And for a one pounder to then grow to 2 lbs it needs about 10 lbs of extra food for a total consumed weight of 16 lbs. A 2 lb LMB needs 16 lbs for staying at maintenance weight and 10 lbs more to grow to 3 lbs. Good growing LMB should grow at LEAST 1 pound per year. Very well fed LMB can gain more than 1 lb per year. If not,,, they are either too crowded and or not getting enough food.

Thus for growing 10 1 lb bass (each @ 12”), EACH one needs to get enough maintenance foods creating a Standard body weight of 1 lb, PLUS then 10 lbs of more forage items to get to the next pound of weight as 2 lbs. For the 10 individual bass, this can amount to a total of 60 lbs of maintenance weight foods and about 100 more lbs for all 10 growing to the next pound to become 2 pound bass – a total of 160 lbs of forage eaten for those 10 individuals per year. 20 of them would consume 320 lbs to get to the 2 lb mark. If those bass are not getting that amount of food they are not growing to their ability.

Managing the fish numbers is often usually done as some form of harvest or mortality so the remaining fish of each desired species gets more to eat. This hopefully keeps those resident fish with full bellies and growing. Importance is numbers Management, Management, Management of fishes comprising the carrying capacity for balance and needed conditions for having good growing fish.

Fish Grow Old.
Fish have ‘average’ life spans based on the specie and where and how or what allows them to grow.
Minnows have relatively short natural life spans as 1 to 3 or 4 years. Panfish have life spans of 4 to 8 maybe 9 years. Many predators have longer life spans such as 10 to maybe 20 years (8-30). Stressors within the system such a oxygen shortages, overcrowding, food shortages, disease / illness, parasites, aging stressors, excessive growth rate and angling stressors have all been shown to shorten the fish’s life span; all depending on existing conditions. Point being, once the fish approach their predetermined life span or end of life, they are more prone to die. Old aging fish are not as resilient as middle age fish.

Fish not eating prior to death have no food in the gut cavity, no decomposition gas forms and they rarely ever float. Never to be seen at the surface. Dead fish seen on the surface usually had food in the gut when they died. Usually there are numerous ways the weak dying or dead fish get eaten or are naturally processed on the bottom,,,, during or after the death phase.

Fishery research has shown that around 25% to 30% of the fishes die each year in a mature fishery with natural carrying capacity. Surprising information. If fish are not harvested prior to the old age death phase, then nature removes them in many natural ways and opens up the carrying capacity by reducing the total weight of carrying capacity to make room or capacity for the new hatchlings. As new fish grow, they then rebuild the Standing Crop toward the Carrying Capacity weight that the fertility of that pond system can support.

Various causes of adult mortality are stressors of bacterial and viral, overpopulation, lack of adequate food, seasonal unusually low dissolved oxygen sags, AND last but not least - angler mishandling especially during warm seasons.
During warm seasons waters have lower oxygen concentrations and it is harder for a fish to recover from high lactic acid build-up in the muscles due to the exhausting angling experience. Lactic acid causes muscle fatigue. Excess muscle fatigue can cause death when not enough oxygen is present in the blood.


When carrying capacity is reached,,,, fish live on available foods produced within the pond system. If they get enough to eat they will grow. When there is lack of needed food,,, weight is usually lost and growth stops. Feeding the fish adds more available foods that increase the Carrying Capacity. Increasing the CCapacity by adding foods or fertilizers starts putting ADDED stressors on the ecosystem beyond it’s natural amount or limit. Then the amount of stressors present are dependent on how high the carrying capacity is STRETCHED above the natural amount of productivity. The more the CCapacity is forced upward the more likely some system stress failures will happen or occur. System failures are usually short term duration that sometimes results in a fish kill. A fish kill then reduces the carrying capacity for the system to recover and get back to a more NATURAL Capacity level.

Pond Fish Management With All Female LMB.
A detailed study of 14 Indiana ponds found the average pond supported a total of 320 pounds of fish per acre. This average CCapacity weight consisted of 224 lbs BG, 36 lbs LMbass, and 60 lbs of miscellaneous other fish per acre.
For our all female LMB example of 2.5 acres, let’s use the often used standing crop weight of LMB a pond can support or grow to be 50 lbs per acre. With other fish species as types of forages in the fishery community, you will be fortunate to maintain 50 lbs of LMB/acre. In the very best highly fertile pond food systems LMB total weight can be as high as 100 lbs per acre. Is this sustainable long term? Probably not without having some sort of eventual fish kill. Fish kills the highly valuable trophy fish are devastating to witness and endure.

If in an all natural pond ecosystem we add 10 female 12” LMB per acre and IF all 10 live to grow to 5 lbs that amounts to our 50 lbs of LMB per acre. If we are able to keep those 10 LMB alive for 10 years we would have the 100 lbs of LMB per acre. According to the historical fishery research this is very unlikely to occur in an all natural productivity system. If the pond system receives added food inputs then numbers can be increased and the CCapacity stretched to higher levels above 50 lbs per acre.

Fishery research and carrying capacity says we should only be able to have 5 or 6 or with careful management MAYBE 7 bass weighing 10 lb per acre or 12 to 17 ten lbers in the 2.5 acres. 17LMB X 10lbs = 170/lb in 2.5 ac (68 lb pf LMB/acre). IMO you will be doing really great work, with wise management, and with some luck in 7 to 10 years if you have 10 to maybe 12 bass all near ten pounds in the 2.5 acres.

When one looks at the mortality rate of mature bass they commonly say it is a 30% loss per year and in IDEAL conditions annual mortality can be 15% per year. This same information likely applies to ponds with higher than normal C Capacity. If you start with 30 female LMB in 2.5 acres and we split the 30% & 15% mortality rate to 20% per year, their declining numbers calculate to be something like this each year.

If stocking 30 Female LMB in 2.5 ac, history says each subsequent year you will have these declining numbers of original bass that you stocked. Keep in mind if all 30 live to be 8 lbs it is a total of 240lbs as 96lbs of LMB per acre.
At 20% annual loss Yr1 =24, yr2 20, yr3 16, yr4 13, yr5 10, yr6 8, yr7 6, yr8 5, yr9 4, yr10 3.
Ideally @ 15% loss Yr1 =30?, yr2 26, yr3 22, yr4 19, yr5 17, yr6 15, yr7 13, yr8 11, yr9 9, yr10 7, yr11 6, yr12 5, yr13 4 of the 10 lb bass,

If during your all female bass growing adventure you add some NEW female stocker bass this will impact and increase the bass weight carrying capacity that could reduce the ability of the original females to continue gaining weight. Special additions of forage fish may be needed to keep the original LMB gaining weight each year if supplemental females are added.

Note - I once did a similar stocking of all female yellow perch. I trusted the supposedly knowledged supplier to sell me all females. He made a mistake and sold me one male perch. Be aware that this type of thing can happen. Beware that friends, family and neighbors can help you stock you new pond and then tell you about it when it is too late to fix a problem of all female bass with one male.

Too much crowding with too much Carrying capacity (as a Density Index) usually stresses the fish to have physical, behavioral or health problems and or a growth slow down and maybe even contribute to some premature death/s.

Forage Additions
Many pond owners periodically add food such as bait fish or other foods to the pond to try and maintain or improve the weight status of the predators. This is a very temporary or very short term benefit to the carrying capacity in terms of LMB weight gain unless this is done on a regular weekly or monthly basis. When one recognizes that the bass are underweight, not at Standard Weight or not growing,,, those underweight bass need to eat a huge amount of forage over a lengthy period to gain back all the weight that been previously lost before they can again begin growing. Be very proactive in monitoring of your LMB and management so the growing bass do not go through periods of weight loss and gains. These periods of weight loss, weight gain, and then weight gain for growth takes time, maybe a whole year, that in the long term reduces your chances of getting those female bass to the trophy size before their end of life span occurs.

In My Opinion, the biggest benefit of occasionally adding bait sized fish for underweight bass is to the bait seller. For LMB to maintain weight each one needs a daily or a STEADY amount of food for a LMB to maintain its body maintenance weight. Remember to then grow,,, each LMB needs lots of additional food above its maintenance weight rations to get any new body length growth. Always be watchful and try to insure that the forage amounts in the pond are ALWAYS adequate to keep the LMB continually growing well for their best growth. This means matching the bass Carrying Capacity to the forage food community by always monitoring forage food sizes, abundance and capacity. To grow big bass I don’t think you can realistically have too much forage foods. It is much easier to have too many bass pounds compared to much forage fish pounds.


A lot of fish consume a lot of food. When feeding the fish supplemental food/s to enhance the carrying capacity the feeding should be done daily or almost daily. Periodically adding live foods is usually not very productive. The live foods are usually small items and are quickly consumed resulting in very little body weight gain. Irregular food feeding minimizes the benefit of adding food if good or optimal fish growth is desired. Animals missing regular meals usually results in them staying at a maintenance (SW), having weight loss that results in slowed growth or a lack of overall fish growth before they die.

A bluegill needs to eat 2 percent of its body weight per day for maintenance of good health and growth. In the example above 320 pounds of bluegill /ac means for them as a group to get good growth they need to eat a total of 6 pounds of food per day. If we have 50 lbs of bass they as a group need to be eating 1-1.5 lbs of fish per day (16-24oz). Thus for 217 growing days this equals around 200 pounds of fish consumed by the bass per year.
For ten of the 10 lb bass they could be eating 16 to 24 ounces of fish per day or each one eating up to 2 to 2.5 ounces of forage per day. A 4.5” BG weighs about 2.5 oz. Monitor and maintain good management for continually abundant forage populations as they will determine your end results.

If one wants good, professional, well experienced information about growing all female LMB, I would talk to or get advice from someone who has experienced numerous all female LMB populations. One well known fishery pro is Dave Beasley at Solitude Lake Management who regularly writes articles about growing big fish in Pond Boss magazine.

Here is what I posted in one of my prior Forum essays about growing big bass and all female bass.
Check with David Beasley as Solitude Lake Management - They have branch offices in eastern US. David specializes in using all female bass for growing the big trophy bass for ponds. He has written several articles in PBoss magazine about growing and managing all female bass. Managing all female bass is as much art as it is science. Genetics and water quality are very important for accomplishing big bass to keep them growing long term and not having them "hit the wall" becoming growth limited due to lack of food.

All female bass will be rather expensive buying them and continually feeding them to grow into trophies.

1. Getting all females are a high premium and not cheap fish because they need to be at larger size for gender determination. It takes time to grow them to larger sizes. Same as buying larger trees - time is money. Separating out the females wastes the male biomass for the fish farm producer. Who wants slow growing all male medium maximum sized bass?.

2. In the long run using all female bass probably saves money to grow trophies because all female gender fish not only provide the big fastest growing fish but it in the long run reduces cost of managing and dealing with excess slow growing smaller bass that are consuming your valuable forage fish and not having to focus as much time and money on adding more proper forage items to produce the best fish (bass). With all females your Forage fish will last longer because not as many fish predators are present compared to a mixed gender LMB population.

Remember as bass grow they eat bigger foods. Be prepared to enhance the pond's forage base as the bass get bigger. IMO do not over stock initial bass numbers and 150 females in 2+ ac will quickly over eat the forage food base. Know your pond’s carrying capacity and plan ahead for those stocked fish to gain weight toward Carrying Capacity. When above CCapacity happens you get slowed growth of the females and longer it takes to reach big bass trophy status. The maximum number to stock the experts suggest would be 50 female bass / ac . This last year with enlightening new fishery experiences,,, IMO - now that density of 50/ac is 25/ac too many for the best and biggest bass. You can't grow enough forage fish in a 2 ac pond to feed 60-80/ac all female bass and have them grow around 2 lbs /year. I would put in no more than 20 per ac of females if you want the biggest bass possible for the genetics that you are buying.

The fewer that are stocked the faster they will grow and in the end,,,,, reach larger sizes and do it in the quickest time. Remember for EACH pound the bass weighs it needs to eat 6 lb of forage fish to keep maintenance weight (std wt) so it can keep growing. Then to gain 1 lb or 1lb+ PER YEAR it needs an additional 10 lbs of fish. When the LMB hits 6 lbs it needs 36lbs (for maintenance wt) + 10 lbs (46lbs) to get to just that 7 lb mark. Be prepared to feed those fat females to keep them so they are gaining at least 1+ lb per year. Sit down and figure out how many forage BG (5"-7") it will take to feed 150 bass each one eating enough fish for bass weights of 5 lb, then 6 lb, then 7 lb then 8 lb. Just 40 total bass (20/ac) at each 8 lbs will be eating 2320 lbs of fish per year. (8lb X 6lb forage = 48lb + 10lbs added forage to reach 9 lbs. 58lb x 40 bass = 2320lbs. Your 2 ac pond cannot grow that much forage fish and have left over forage brood stock for reproduction next year.

Adding too many females will cost more in the long run to produce trophies because you will need to be adding large forage food items to keep them growing. I would consider also adding YP to the female bass pond. A 10"-12" YP makes very good slender easy to swallow food for a 7 - 8 lb bass so they each year grow toward 10-12 lbs. Remember with all female bass there will be no small 6"-12" bass for the big LM females to eat for dinner. Big bass need big foods to stay at maintenance weight and then some foods for CONTINUED growth unless you want the females to stay at one size. Food limiting will do that.

Tell Dave that you were referred to him by Pond Boss Forum.

Examples of some of Beasley’s Articles
2024 Nov-Dec Overcoming Risks Jeopardizing Trophy Largemouth Bass Fisheries. Importance of being a diligent pond manager.

2020
SEEKING PROFESSIONAL ADVICE. In this article Beasley tells what it takes to have a do it yourself successful pond. Trends of a new pond or restarting a pond that are most successful, and the pieces of management most difficult. No turning back after stocking. Struggles of which predator to use and how many to choose. Common mistakes noted.

A YOUNG FISHERY WITH A BRIGHT FUTURE. PART 2. RESULTS AFTER THREE YEARS OF MANAGEMET. Dave Beasley describes using a renovated 6 acre pond for growing big bass. Produced bass of up to 4.2 lb in 3 years in this southeast central US pond.

WHAT LARGEMOUTH BASS SHOULD I STOCK? Dave Beasley explains numerous options for the best type of bass for stocking based on your goals.

TROPHY LARGEMOUGH BASS FISHERY. KEYS TO SUSTAINABILITY. Dave Beasley explains important items to maintain long term trophy fisheries. How to prevent natural gradual decline of fish sizes.

BUILDING THE FISHING POND OF YOUR DREAMS Part II. Beasley described how LM bass were used to grow a trophy bass fishery.

AQUATIC VEGETATION Beasley discusses pros & cons of water plants, main control methods, most common types, water depths, plant predators, and getting good ones established.

SAY NO TO CYANOS IF YOU WANT BIG BASS. Dave Beasley & West Bishop discuss new concepts for better productivity, growing better algae for better fish.

LESSONS LEARNED FROM FISH KILLS. Beasely tells what events lead to fish kills. Things to reduce chances of fish kill.

MAKING ASSUMPTIONS IN POND MANAGEMENT. Beasley tells how to avoid common mistakes in management. Keeping a fishery healthy & productive, aging fish, needs of a high quality fishery, CPUE, pond planning building needs, and dealing with vegetation.

THINKING PAST THE OBVIOUS. Beasley tells how to tackle and better solve pond several types of problems by not looking just at the symptoms.

TROPHY HYBRID STRIPED BASS IN SMALL IMPOUNDMENTS. Beasley tells about stripers, benefits and how they compare to largemouth.

MISTAKES MADE MANAGING FOR TROPHY LARGEMOUTH BASS. Beasley – Numerous do’s and don’ts.

PUSHING THE LIMITS OF A SMALL TROPHY FISHERY. Beasley producing biggest fish in 1 ac pond.

GOOD TIMES DO NOT LAST FOREVER. Beasley tells the To Dos when the first stocking dies of old age.

2021
CONSIDERATIONS WHEN CREATING AND ENTERTAINING FISHERY. Beasley. Setting possible goals using fast growing fish.

PROACTIVE MANAGEMENT IS BETTER THAN REACTIVE. Beasley. Suggestions for early actions.

10 ACRE CAROLINA TROPHY LARGEMOUTH BASS FISHERY. Beasley. A profile of 10 years to 10 lb bass.

LEGENDARY FISH FOR A LEGENDARY RANCH. Beasley explains how in 2 yrs 3.7-5.2lb bass were raised and in 4 yrs - one bass was 14.2 lbs.

REVITALIZE YOUR FISHERY: REDUCING PHOSPHORUS. Beasley give information and ideas about this two edged nutrient.

A SUCCESSFUL FISHERY: ITS IMPACT ON A CLOSE KNIT FAMILY. Beasley reviews a 10 yr old 31 ac TX lake as a LMbass paradise of maintaining forage and focusing on bass culling harvest as a family project.

2022, 2023 & 2024 Beasley's articles not indexed yet. I need to get busy with this indexing.
All 2023 PB articles are in this link
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=572060#Post572060


Some Management Notes
The size and number of each species harvested will affect the size and number of each species that grow back. Supplemental feeding is not necessary in well-managed ponds. In fact, the rate of pond aging and the bottom muck accumulation may increase because of the accumulation of nutrients from uneaten food and the increased waste produced by the fish. Commercial feed can be used to increase the pounds of fish and or forage fish produced or to raise larger fish or to increase the C Capacity, however it has consequences regarding pond aging and dealing with more plant growths due to an enriched pond ecosystem.

Feeding increases the amount of organic matter in the pond, and the decay of this material uses oxygen from the water. Bacterial Decay releases organic bound nutrients to grow more plants that often become a problem or nuisance. Killing the excessive plants can cause numerous types of stressors on the ecosystem. As fish are fed they become larger, perhaps exceeding the pond’s carrying capacity. During certain weather periods, the pond may not be able to produce enough oxygen to support the largest fish or to supply the oxygen that has been removed by the excessive decaying matter. This problem is worse during warm temperatures and becomes intensified on hot, cloudy summer days. If you use commercial food, you should or must harvest fish or not produce too many fish to keep the CCapacity more normalized.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/17/25 07:56 PM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
1 member likes this: FishinRod
Bill Cody #576026 08/17/25 06:25 PM
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Can’t thank you enough Bill for your thoughtful responses. Very much appreciated.

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Wow, what a great read! Thanks for putting it together and posting!


19 acre watershed pond
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Thanks! Very educational.

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One additional note on timing. In a new pond (no fish) in the south a newly stocked pond will reach carrying capacity in 18 mths+- , up north 24 mths+-. From then on its about managing population dynamics (size and numbers).

















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