Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Pond restoration questions

Good morning.

I am a newly subscribed forum member. After perusing the threads, there looks to be some really great info in here!

My family has a roughly 3.5 acre pond that was originally filled and stocked back in 1995 with LMB and BG. Lack of maintenance, particularly in the last 10 years or so resulted in a bass-crowded pond with a severely depleted BG population. My goal is to get the pond back in balance and produce a healthy LMB population for myself and my two teenage sons. The pond has about an acre and a half of open water averaging about 12 feet deep with the deepest point being probably 16 feet. The other 2 acres or so gradually become shallower and have two fingers on the far end corners that go to around 1-2 feet.

Some key characteristics following an electro-evaluation I had done: Alkalinity: 2.1 PPM (yikes)...50 LMB were removed during the evaluation totaling 13 pounds (double yikes)...only 1 BG was collected...Decent sized infestation of slender spike rush grass

Plan beginning this summer and through next Spring:
- Harvest around 90 lbs of LMB between now and this time next year (daunting challenge considering, based on the results of the evaluation, this would be roughly 350 bass). I'm right at 50 lbs now with 193 bass.
- Suspend BG harvest until further notice
- 50 grass carp for the slender spike rush - stocked last month
- 25 tons of lime to be put in either end of this month or next month
- 125 lbs of fertilizer starting last month and ending in October
- installed one feeder at end of dock - using Purina Game Fish Chow - 3 feedings per day at 6 seconds each
- Attempting to add cover/habitats in strategic locations to condense the fishing areas
- 8000 intermediate BG stocked in the Fall
- 275 lbs of fertilizer from March-October next year
- 10,000 TSH to be stocked next Spring

So, a few questions/issues that I have been mulling over lately:

Turtles - I have a decent number of turtles in the pond. The evaluation mentions that they are not an issue to the fish population, but I have noticed that, unless I am standing on the dock, they are all over the pellet feed. Can that be an issue? Particularly since I know the carp will be eating some too.

I am having some issues finding the fish, at least in bunches. For a "severely bass crowded" pond, it sure doesn't seem very crowded LOL. I will go out for a couple of hours, fish deep, shallow, in between, whatever and come away with maybe 5-6 fish. The cover that I have put out is moderately effective, but not great. Maybe that is normal for this time of year down in South Alabama. My theory is that the depleted BG population simply has the fish very spread out. Thoughts?

Along the same lines as the last question...can I expect the number of bites to increase or decrease (or stay the same?) when the 8000 BG are introduced? As you can probably tell, I'm trying to avoid having to make up the discrepancy in the bass harvest with an electro-harvest.

Thank you and looking forward to some good input and discussion!

One more note I forgot to mention...

Due to a busted (and subsequently closed off) drainage pipe, we depend on the spillway. I found what had to be 500 newly spawned BG dead at the bottom of the drainage area off of the spillway. That pipe has been non-functional for nearly 20 years, so I am wondering about the impact of this happening year after year during heavy rain events, which happen pretty regularly during the Spring down here.

I wish you hadn't of stocked the fish. I'd recommend killing the pond and starting over. A couple of reasons. The bass that are in there have been stunted for a long time, and a LOT of them won't;t grow to anywhere near their potential due to their age. Why throw $$ away feeding them? Then there's the genetic base. They are used to not growing due to the limited food supply, not having enough cover; possibly being marathon runners or both. LOTS of things have changed since 1985, and there are strains of bass that grow fast now. (Titan Bass, F1's, etc.)

I would NOT stock any bluegill until you got the bass out of there that you have to get out. Why feed bass that you are going to be removing? You could stock Coppernose Bluegill down there. I'd stock about 25% Redear Sunfish (shellcrackers) if you see any signs of snails in the pond. Remember, a bass will eat a bluegill that is up to 1/3 (or so) it's length. So to prevent the existing bass to eat a lot of the BG or CNBG, you have to stock advanced sizes. We have grown bass from 2 1/2"-3" in early May to 12"-14" by late October and they weigh between 1.5-3 pounds each. That is with stocking FHM and GSH in the Fall, with 2,500 BG and 500 RES that are 1"-2.5" long per acre, then the fingerling bass the following May. Feeding is very helpful too. You might want to look at Purina MVP or Endurance Fish Food. Higher protein/fat levels.

You really should get the drainage pipe fixed. Depending on the spillway, its a recipe for potential disaster. What would happen if you had all the fish stocked, then a big enough rain came and washed away the spillway and drained the pond?

Also, I would hold off on adding any fertilizer until you get the alkalinity of the water up where it is supposed to be at. Without the correct alkalinity, you could have plenty of nutrients in the pond to grow phytoplankton, but the low alkalinity is limiting their growth. Get that correct, and with extra fertilizer it might be a green soup mess. To verify whether you have enough nutrients in there, I'd suggest getting the water tested for Nitrogen and phosphorous. You want the numbers to be within this range. TP = Total Phosphorous 0.01 - 0.075 mg/l TKN = Total Kjeldahl Nitrogen 2-6 mg/l.

If it's higher than that, do NOT add any more fertilizer until the alkalinity is where it's supposed to be for a few months. I like to see alkalinity no lower than 40 ppm. Many places say 20 ppm but that really doesn't leave you much (if any) of a buffer if it drops any lower. Our Alkalinity here in Northern Indiana is in the 150ish range........ You want the phytoplanktom bloom to give you between 18"-36" reading on a Secchi Disc.

Thanks esshup!

To clarify, I haven't stocked any fish yet (unless you are referring to the Grass Carp, which, yes, are already in). As a side note that I think is kind of funny: I am 50 years old and been bass fishing at this particular location, and other places, all my life. You mention the stunted growth of the bass, which was also explained in the evaluation I was given. I never realized that bass actually STOP growing, but still get older. I always just assumed that, in an overcrowed situation, bass just grow and, as they age, they get too big to compete with the smaller bass and die of starvation LOL.

The BG are scheduled to be stocked this Fall and they are Coppernose Bluegill (CNBG). I have never noticed any snails at all. I suppose they could be in there, but I have never seen or heard anything about snails. What are the signs?

The stocking plan for the upcoming Fall is for intermediate sized CNBG (3-5 inches). As for the current bass harvesting efforts, I actually had something come up yesterday that prompted me to reevaluate the progress. As I mentioned in the original post, during the electro-evaluation, 50 bass were taken out that totaled 13 lbs. Since then, I have pulled out 144 bass, but have not been weighing them. I didn't have a scale, but figured I'd just go by the ratio of 13lbs per 50 bass (like the electro-evaluation), which equals .26 lbs per bass. So, 194 total bass = 50.44 lbs. I bought a scale yesterday, went to the camp, and caught two fish. They were small and skinny, but weighed .55 and .51 lbs each. That has me thinking that I am actually closer to my 24 month goal of 90 lbs than I thought. I have caught some fish that are smaller than that over the past couple of months, but also several that were bigger than those two.

You mention not having enough cover and being marathon runners. I suspect you are correct on both counts. There were some cover areas in the pond, but not enough (likely not close to enough). Basically, the cover areas that were in there were overhanging parts of trees in the water in a few places. I cut a bunch of large limbs and small trees and placed them around in more areas, but that was only a couple of months ago. I have a general idea of the topography of the bottom, but nothing close to optimal. I know there is a stream bed that runs across the bottom, but I don't know really where it is. I know that there is a deep trench near one of the banks, but that is about it.

I'd like to, and I am trying to implement, an organized plan to pour pea gravel in 5-6 strategic areas for CNBG spawning along with placing artificial and/or natural cover right around those areas. I mentioned the bass are hard to locate, but I suspect it's because they are dispersed all over due to not having any real concentrated areas of forage (marathon runners LOL).

The drainage pipe broke down deep during a Hurricane (mom thinks it was Katrina, which was 2005). Water was draining out of the pond. Whoever installed it tried to find a way to fix it, but determined it couldn't be fixed, so that is when we started just using the spillway instead. I put in some stakes and 1/4 inch hardware wire which has worked fine so far, but that was after finding the dead CNBG, so it still hasn't faced the test of a day-long Spring rain.

I had the same concern about the fertilizer prior to the lime. He said to go ahead and start putting it in to get some color into the pond. I assumed that means the fertilizer would react with the lime once it is in. I've put in two rounds of fertilizer (one in June and one this month) and it is definitely turning a nice greenish tint. I will plan to hold off on any more until the lime is in, which will hopefully be next month anyway. He did say to hold off if the visibility exceeds 18-24 inches.

I appreciate your taking the time! Look forward to hearing further thoughts.

I doubt another 50 lbs of bass being removed is going to make a legit difference given the fact that 50 bass weighed 13 lbs.

I'd drain down, kill it, fix my drain pipe, and improve my cover before I stocked fish again. Most likely would be ahead timeline instead of maybe having your work.

Thanks.

Drain pipe issue aside, the plan was to improve the cover prior to the bream being stocked, for sure. Just to clarify the reasoning behind your and esshup's suggestion of starting over: Assuming I hit the harvest goal, you are saying that, even though the bass population is reduced to the correct level, those bass will mostly not grow to potential and be competing with the younger, growing bass for forage?

^^^ What he said.

If say 2 years down the road, the spillway gets washed out and all the fish in the pond go downstream, then what? How much $$ have you lost?

As for cover in the pond, roughly 20% - 25% of the surface area of the pond should be cover for the fish, from shallow water to deep water. So in a 3.5 acre pond that is 7/8 of an acre of cover or roughly an area that totals 182 feet x 182 feet...........

Not a small task at all.

But if the pond was drained, the overflow pipe fixed, then almost if not all of that cover could be placed by heavy equipment and not by hand from a boat..........

The fertilizer won't react with the lime, the lime will just make the fertilizer available to the plants and algae. Don't add any more. Wait until the lime is added. Or if you DO decide to fix the pipe, don't add any lime at all until the pipe is fixed.

If you have noticed any fish in the pond that have yellow or white grubs in the flesh or on them, or any fish that has what looks to be pepper sprinkled on them that is an indicator that there are many snails in the pond. It might be a good idea to get a boat in there that has a depth finder and make a tour of the pond checking all the water depth. Newer models can also make a map of the bottom of the pond. If it is a LOT shallower than you thought that is another reason to kill it, drain it, fix everything and start over.

I appreciate all of the good input. It is definitely food for thought. I guess you'd have to see the layout, but the spillway has functioned as the pond drain for a long time and has remained solidly intact. There are some additional reinforcements I could put in, as well.

Sounds like, if I move forward with the existing plan, I have some work to do on the cover and structure. I was already looking at some of the other threads on ideas that I can already tell would help with that.

I definitely will not put in any more fertilizer until the lime is in.

I haven't seen any of the evidence that you mention about the snails, thank God LOL.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Good thread, a couple thoughts from a non expert...Feeding may be excessive. Use a better feed and throw less. LMB are probably not pellet feeding and you don't want to get GC started, they will never leave the feeder area...50 GC for 3.5 acres is a high ratio, in my experience.

Good luck on an interesting project!

Mike

If draining is not something you want to do, I believe you can install a siphon drain system instead to avoid using the spillway. While my puddle exclusively uses a spillway, there is little chance of it washing out due to heavy vegetation and a slow slope. If there was more risk, a siphon system would be added, with the pull from the bottom.

I have seen two ponds that had a concrete spillway where water worked underneath it and washed it out. This is probably more common in cold climates where frost will heave most anything, leaving an easy gap for water flow. Spillways are risky.

But I would agree with others here and learn as much as you can about the pond before making any more moves. With aquariums, small incremental changes are preferable. Large changes like adding too many fish or cleaning too much at once can destabilize the tank and lead to disaster.

Mike,

Good info on the feeding. Frankly I have just been kind of figuring out the feeding with the new feeder. I bought a single bag while at Tractor Supply and feeding based on whether or not they can polish off the food in 10-15 mins. But, like you said, I have seen at least one GC darting around them. Also, at least 2 turtles are picking off pellets. The look like the Hungry Hippos game lol. As for the LMB, my son says he saw 3-4 bass hovering below the bream and picking off a few of them (I haven’t seen that though). No feeding on pellets.

Our spillway is also heavy vegetation and a slow slope. The big concern for me on the spillway is losing babies. That’s why I put up the hardware cloth. That said, I did read up on the siphon system and that is very interesting as an option. I can already envision right where it would go.

Thanks!

Had some time today and figured I would give an update and maybe a couple more questions.

I did decide to move forward with the plan with a commitment to continued agressive weekly harvesting indefinitely while continuing to closely track weight and am going to begin adding length to the tracking.

Regarding the bass harvest, the total count is now at 283 and estimated around 90-100 lbs based on the readings I have gotten since I started weighing the fish. I've been using the Rapala High Contrast Digital scale, 50lbs. I haven't thrown any back, although there haven't been but a handful that would even be considered to throw back.

The lime is in and I have added 2 applications of fertilizer since then. The first application after the lime produced what seemed (to me anyway) to be a pretty thick bloom. I came to the pond a few days after the application and it was pretty thick green with a thin film and producing many bubbles at the surface. That was in the afternoon. By the next morning, it had cleared up considerably but still had the nice, green tint. I was worried about this at first, but after reading up on it, it seems to be normal. It seems to have only had that big bloom the one time.

I have increased the cover with larger laydowns around the perimeter in probably 10-12 different spots. I have been using small oak trees and larger branches. Also, holly trees. One thing that seems to be already successful is an idea I got specifically from this site after looking at all of the homemade habitat pictures on here. I found an iron bedframe with springs in our old abandoned camp. I cut 8 pieces of 2"1/2' PVC about 2 feet long each and put them at various places within the springs (I wish I would have taken a picture). I put it in about 8 feet of water 20-30 feet or so off the shore right near some good shoreline cover. A couple of weeks after putting it in, I started getting consistent bites around the shore as well as deep around that cover. I am planning on putting in another one (there is 1 more bed) as well as 5-6 more bass-specific cover spots around strategic areas. The idea (based on what I have read) is to create bluegill cover near the shore and deeper bass cover within striking distance. I have 4 50 gallon drums that I am going to work with this weekend and try to come up with something creative.

From what I can tell about the overall trends of the fish, I at least seem to be making progress. But that is where my questions start: The past month or so, based on calculating the relative wt of a few samples, I appear to be catching primarily young, healthy bass. In walking around the banks, I am also seeing quite a few fingerlings around 4 inches or so. I did see a big, healthy looking bass swimming in and around the bluegill at the feeder. Definitely the biggest fish I have seen in a long time. Don't know if that means anything but it was just encouraging to lay eyes on a fish in there that wasn't less than 13 inches long and thin haha.

I am working like crazy to continue to pull out any bass that I catch (unless it's obviously a bigger one) and was planning to do that throughout the next year. Also, the CNBG are scheduled to be put in next month so I am going to try to have all of the additional cover for both bass and CNBG in before then.

Questions for the group:

Is there really a way to know when you are where you need to be relative to the bass population? I seem to be having a much harder time catching stunted bass and even a harder time catching younger bass. I don't THINK that I need to slow down and I am not terribly worried about OVER-harvesting, but I thought I would get some input.

I asked this question initially but I think it just got lost in everything else: I have read that turtles are not really a factor in fish populations, but they are definitely affecting the bluegill feeding. Last week, I crept out and watched from a short distance and there were 5-6 turtles right in the middle of the feed gobbling up the food. I am thinking I need to start shooting them. Can you have too many turtles?

For birds, I have 1, sometimes 2, egrets that are at the pond daily. I have also seen what looks to be a green heron stalking the banks. I hate to get rid of them (the heron is REALLY cool) and my management guy says they shouldn't be a problem. He specifically mentione being on the lookout for cormorants and anhingas, but said I shouldn't have to worry about the egret and the heron. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks all!

Do not be concerned about turtles, I have literally hundreds in a smaller pond and they do not effect the fish at all. If anything they might help by cleaning up dead stuff. They are also much slower than fish and won't get that many pellets once there are a bunch of fish to eat them. Wading birds like herons don't take many fish and are only annoying when they kill a bigger fish, but in your case they really aren't hurting anything although I would scare them away for about an hour after you stock anything. The only animals that will damage the pond is cormorants, anhingas, and otters (legally I can't tell you to kill them).

Pelicans too.

No kidding about the Pelicans. I watched a flock of over 200 herd a school of shad up into a cove at Kaw lake and destroy them. One of the craziest things I have ever seen. I wished I would have had my drone to get footage. It was like a football team working through a playbook. They boxed them into the shallows and had a feast.

Never seen a pelican

Thanks. Sounds good on the turtles.

In the past, we have had otters on multiple occasions. God knows how many fish they took because it was before anyone was paying close attention and spending a lot of time there. So, not sure how long they were in there. The last couple of instances, a couple of guys who help us look out for the place just happened to notice them. Thankfully they are gone now, but we are keeping a close eye, especially right now because it has been so dry and the pond is low.

Quick update and looking for input on current situation 3.75 Acre Pond in South Alabama:

Summary of plan and what has been done:

- May 2025: Electro Evaluation revealed overpopulation of LMB producing stunted bass and severely depleted population of intermediate CNBG, moderate infestation of slender spike rush, extremely low alkalinity (2 PPM)

- Management plan:
- 50 grass carp - June 2025 - grass is virtually gone
- Began fertilizer program - June - October 2025, resumed March 2026
- 25 tons lime - August 2025
- 8000 intermediate CNBG - October 2025
- Truckload Threadfin shad - March 2026
- 1 feeder for CNBG running from March - October
- Annual Evaluation - TBD but assuming next month or June

Have removed at least 175 lbs of LMB since June 2025.

CNBG population appears to be in great shape. Plentiful in all sizes and very healthy. Have not seen much evidence personally of shad activity, but do know they pulled off a spawn because, on occasion, have seen a school of shad fry. Have seen activity on the top of the water here and there but not sure that was the shad. Definitely haven't noticed any sort of obvious signs of a group of bass running the shad.

The weekend before the LMB started to spawn (before the shad were introduced), the bass were crazy active and biting shallow like you would expect. Actually saw 3-4 swimming around that looked to be in the 4-6 lb range. That said, I caught 30 and probably only 1/3rd of those were over 1 lb. All of the fish that I caught looked to be in really good shape. Nice, fat bellies. Just not big.

There are hundreds of bass in the pond between 6-8 inches long. Went out on Sunday and caught 11 pretty quickly and only two of them weighed over 1/2 pound. Again, those two appeared healthy. The rest were barely weighable. I'm not even sure my Bubba scale is even meant to weigh a fish that is 6 inches long. 3-4 oz fish.

My plan now until the annual evaluation is to just keep pulling out the little bass. In 2026, I have pulled out 129 bass for 47 pounds. On the rare occasion that I do catch a healthy, what appears to be adult bass weighing at least a pound, I have been throwing it back. I simply don't think that there are that many adult bass left in there. At least relative to what you would normally see in a pond that size. For reference, I have a relative with a couple of smaller ponds nearby that haven't been harvested really at all in the past several years. In both of those ponds, it is easy to go out and catch 15+ bass within an hour between 1-2 pounds. During pre-spawn, it was just about every cast. Very difficult to catch a small bass less than 1 year old.

Looks to me like the spawned bass from 2025, as opposed to years past, mostly survived and thrived due to the harvest efforts and greatly enhanced water quality.

Thoughts? Keep after the little guys?

You are on a good start. What are your fishery goals for the pond?

I would check the alkalinity now and if it's not 40 ppm or higher add an other 25 tons. Do not add any more fertilizer until the alkalinity is over 40 ppm.

You are on track for the bass population, but the goal for this year would be remove 120 pounds. I would take out every other bass that you caught that is under 12" and keep them to weigh as a group at the end of the day. It doesn't matter if they are fat or not, Then if the pond is electroshocked again this year, you can determine how many to remove next year. The less LMB in there the faster they will grow.

I know this is a different situation, but in a customers new pond, the bass that were stocked in early May at 3" grew to 13"-14" by late October. So, just remember that if the bass have sufficient forage to eat they will grow very fast. You want a variety of sizes of forage fish in the pond.

10# of fish puts 1# of weight on one LMB and they have to eat that 10# of fish in addition to the fish that they have to eat just to survive at a weight (std weight) they can continue growing.

If you stocked medium CNBG they were 2.75"-3" and 8000 fish weighed 120-192 pounds If they were 4.25"-4.5" they weighed 360-472 pounds

If you aren't feeding the bluegill in there, feeding then would help the situation.

Annual evaluation should happen before the next planned application of fertilizer anyway, so no problem there. They will check the PPM on that visit. They will electroshock as well and help speed up the process for the annual harvest.

I am definitely taking out everything less than 12 inches at least until I hear otherwise from the annual eval. As far as mass weighing the fish, any recommendations on a scale for that? That would be great to have a way to mass weigh the small fish

I am feeding the bluegill. I have one supplemental feeder at the end of the pier. Goes off twice per day at 10 seconds. Probably need to up that to 3 times a day, actually

Thanks esshup.