Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Question about feeding / size of feed/etc.

I've been regularly feeding my SBS (though the voracious GSH and FHM always participate). I'm curious why the SBS never just swallow the pellets. They're not large, but I'm assuming it's a mouth size issue. Seems like all the fish basically attack the feed, knock it around, it eventually sinks, and they consume it that way. I do know they literally follow me around the shore hoping for food....or it sure seems so.

What puzzles me is that they will suck down flies like BAM; they attack and the fly is gone; and, larger insects they'll attack as well....seen them consume beetles that are larger than the feed size.

Any wisdom appreciate. And thanks to a bunch of you who encouraged me to feed them...it is indeed a blast.

Are you hand feeding or using a thrower?

I know some of the guys that hand feed will occasionally grind pellets at certain times of the year to create smaller bites for younger fish.

You could put some feed in a clean rag and bash it with a hammer a few times and see if the your SBS like the smaller fragments better.

If they do, you might have to buy smaller feed, or one of the feeds with a greater range of pellet sizes. (I am sure the experts could help you on that topic.)

Okay - refresh our memory. New pond correct?. First stocking correct? What size SBS did you buy and what size and brand of pellets are you feeding? SBS were supposed to be pellet trained correct? As I recall you got the SBS from Jones correct?. If they try to eat them and then do not,,, they SBS must know what pellets are. Minnows often lead the fingerling sport fish to the food. Have you tried softening toward full dampess and not soggy / mushy the pellets before you add the pellets that you toss into the pond? Generally the optimal pellet size to feed a type of fish is the pellet should be the size of the fish's eye. Do not feed more pellets than the fish consume in several minutes as they float to shore and usually cause algae growth. At first, feed the pellets as the fish consume them. Be patient grasshopper with teaching your new fish to eat pellets.

YES: new 1/4 pond. Technically first stocking. SBS were 3-5" from Jones. using Nutrena "trophy fish seed" from Tractor Supply; reasonable cost, fish attack it immediately. Yeah, minnows/shiners always go right after the food. SBS/GSH/FHM always hang out together, complete for the feed. Getting feed soggy/mushy, and/or pounding feed is a GREAT idea; did that yesterday right after reading these suggestions. Went great. Not sure what "training/teaching" them is necessary(?) since they don't have slightest hesitation going for it. Please clarify. Understood re: feeing in limited amounts that will be "cleared" to avoid massive organic buildup.

Great idea: the bag, pounding/etc., tried today, worked fine. Will use this method in the future.

I would switch to a much higher quality feed. Fish Food growth tests were done a number of years ago. with Optimal Feed vs Tractor Supply "Trophy Grower" mix. 40# of Optimal grew the same amount of fish flesh as 120# of the TSC Trophy Grower fish food. The closest thing you can get now to the old Optimal Feed is the new Endurance Fish Food. Order it on-line, the price you see includes shipping.

A customer last month bought feed from the local fed store. She didn't remember the brand that she bought, but sh said the fish were picking and spitting the fish food. I gave her a bag of good fish food and told her that if they didn't eat it, I'd take the remainder of the bag back and not charge her for it. She called the other day and said she has to pay me for the bag of fish food, they are not picking and spitting the new feed.

BJ What is the size of each Tractor Supply pellet? What is the protein content of the tag on the bag??? The tractor supply pellets are cheaper however if as esshup says 120 lbs of Tractor Supply brand feed grows the same as one 40 lb bag of Optimal /Endurance brand, so is the TS feed really cheaper?. It takes 3 bags of TS feed to equal growth of Endurance brand fish food. PLUS the TS brand feed probably causes more manure from undigestable feed into the pond to significantly cause general poorer water quality. Undigested feed in more manure likely causes more algae problems in a small 0.25 ac pond. PLUS the fish will grow bigger and faster using Endurance brand pellets. So is the TS fish feed really cheaper???

Note on TS website I see they do offer for sale Purina Brand fish food - maybe special order. BJ if you can get that Purina brand of fish it is IMO good,,,, but not as good for growing high quality fish as Endurance.

I have seen Purina Game Fish Chow at our local TSC, but not Aquamax.

Thanks for all this. The Nutrena feed is 32% crude protein, 7.5% max crude fiber, 4% crude fat. I will check out the Endurance and Purina brands. Hopefully Endurance won't be outrageously expensive.....of course I'd prefer better food if at all possible; keeping in mind that it'll be a monthly expense. I sure don't want water quality to suffer.

The 32% protein 4% fat is usually considered a lower grade fish food for feeding primarily catfish, tilapia and some forms of koi. Bluegills, HBG and even yellow perch, I have seen eat this lower value fish food. A big however for this type of fish food results in more undigestable food and more fish waste and then generally lower overall water quality as is usually first evidenced by more string green algae being visible and sometimes lower water clarity. .

IMO if growing premium and best growing fish is the goal, then it is best to use a proven high grade fish food with minimal protein content of 40% - 45%. The really important component of high protein fish food is the amount of DIGESTABLE protein that is not mentioned on the bag ingredients label. This is where the user has to trust the producer to provide the best proven ingredients for growing fish. User testimonies and results of those that use the product are good signs of a high quality feed. Those BEST testimonies of premium high quality fish food do not really come from the fish food producers but they come from fish producers who actually grow fish in recurculating water systems. The best fish foods have been tested in the aquaculture recurculating fish grower market.Those fish growers have to daily deal with and manage the amount of fish waste products that the food produces after it has been eaten by the fish.

Well.....the Purina Aquamax is 36% protein, same as the Nutrena stuff. 50 lb. bag for $49.
Endurance feed 40% protein, $65 40 .b. bag.
The Nutrena (which I won't use any longer) is 25 ;b. for ~$25.

Perhaps you need to tell Purina about that, since they say Aquamax is 41% protein. See "Features and Benefits":
Aquamax 500
Aquamax 600

BJ I agree with Theo G, and think your information for the Aquamax fish food pellets should be 41% protein. There is a mistake somewhere.

The price for the Endurance feed includes shipping. Is shipping included in the price of the other feeds?

Well, I have to drive a mile and a half to get Aquamax, so, no.

They will order Aquamax MVP or the others if you request it or order online and have it shipped for free to your house. $69.99 per bag.
I contacted my local Purina dealer and they get it for me for $55. Like you Theo it's close for me.
I'm in Oklahoma and since I have a farm tax ID there is no tax.

BJ Nick

I started out feeding the cheaper fish food and esshup is absolutely correct. Quality makes a big difference.

From the label. MVP - Sportfish is Multi-variable product · Floating and sinking diet · Fishmeal #1 ingredient · 43% protein, 12% fat
Sport Fish 500 is a floating product in a in a 3/16" extruded pellet. 41% protein 12 % fat
Sportfish 600 41% Protein, 12% Fat 9/32” particle size.

I've read the statistics on Optimal/Endurance and it appears to be equally as good or better. esshup has much more knowledge than I do concerning their products. I only have experience with Purina MVP, it has worked well for me.

Okay, I'm guessing obviously there are different types of Purina "Aquamax." The one that came up on my search was "Aquamax Pond Fish", and it says:

..........

100% nutritionally complete and balanced diet for omnivorous fish
3/16 in. particle size is suitable for many species of pond fish
36% protein and 6% fat to support muscle growth, but not excessive fat of salmonid diets
Little waste and optimal feed conversion
.........

I think the 500 or 600 is what is being suggested, which is 41-43% protein. But they are at least $89 for 50 lbs.! I don't know the logistics yet on all this....if the 50 lb. bag lasts 2-3 months, that's great; no problem. But if it's a monthly expense........that is a LOT for me to spend. To be clear: I want healthy growing fish in a clean healthy clear pond. I am not seeking to breed massive lunkers.

BJ with your small newly stocked 0.2 ac pond the 40-50 lb bag of fish food (Aquamax 500/MVP or Optmal BG) should last you 12-16 months. You will only need to feed those few small newly stocked fish 1-1.5 cups per day maximum. Even when they are larger adults and reproducing in 0.2 ac a 40-50lb bag of food should last 12 months. feeding more than 1.5 cups per day in 0.2 ac often IMO means you are feeding too many fish. Harvest is VERY important when growing any crop be vegetables, grain, chickens or cattle .

Bill, that is really great to know. (Just fyi: the pond is 0.5 acre, not 0.2.) I've been feeding exactly that: ~1.5 cups/day. If the feed will last a year(!), then OF COURSE 100% I will get the best possible feed, which seems to be Endurance; I'll order it right away and discontinue the cheapie TSC stuff. To be clear, THIS is what you're suggesting:
........................

ENDURANCE Pond Feed
Professional Pond Blend 5mm
$65.00

40% Protein / 10% Lipid
5mm Mixed Length Pellets
Floating Pond Feed
40lb bag
........................

Obviously they have several varieties: Performance Bass Blends, Juvenile, etc. Seems like the more generic "Pond Blend" is optimal for me.....yes?

Thanks!

Our Purina dealer charges about 2/3 that much.

Theo, obviously I'd prefer to spend less; is it a more or less consensus that the Purina is as good as the Endurance? Bill seems to suggest that both are good, but the Endurance stuff is a cut above. For something where the difference is around $20 for the year, I wouldn't quibble over that much. What are your thoughts?

My thoughts on these two brands of feed is similar to my thoughts on what brand of tractor one should buy. The best brand of tractor for someone is one that is supported by a good, honest, local dealer willing to provide great service. For my family, that used to be brand #1, but the decent dealers for that brand were bought out by a corporation that apparently doesn't want to deal with anyone spending less than a half mill. So we switched to brand #2, sold by a great dealer who not only supports that brand as well as brands 3, 4, and 5 (that they also sell) but will also repair our brand #1 stuff. (When our brand 1 round baler went down three years ago 4 bales into a field, the brand 1 corp said they might be able to get us a mechanic in a couple of weeks. Our brand 2 dealer sent a mechanic in a couple of hours; the two of us had the problem fixed in about 45 minutes.)

I suspect Purina Aquamax and Endurance are pretty equivalent, and which brand makes the most sense for a pondmeister depends on their individual circumstances (mainly location). We have a Purina dealer just down the road that we are at just about every week (for cattle and horse feeds/supplements as well and hay and soil testing), so for me, Aquamax is a no brainer. YMMV, which is kinda my whole point.

BJ - If you are wanting very good growth with minimal amount of waste produced, then I would chose - ENDURANCE Pond Feed, Professional Pond Blend 5mm, $65.00(includes to door shipping), 40% Protein / 10% Lipid, 5mm Mixed Length Pellets, 40lb bag. Try it and watch the growth of your fish.

Remind us what fishes that you stocked and how many and at what sizes.

Are your fish eating all of the 1.5 cups at each feeding???? or do you toss it in and not watch feeding to see if it is all eaten? Do not overfeed. Feed just what is consumed at each feeding.

Pellets at 1.5 cups = 5.0oz. 40lbs =128 feedings of 1.5 cups each. 1cup/day =170 days of feeding. You really do not need to feed every day. 4-5 times per week is adequate for good fish growth. IMO for the fish species and sizes and numbers that you stocked,,,, 1 cup at each feeding at this point in time should be enough food until around early August when fish have doubled in size. Remember that your small fish in a new pond,will also have a natural food buffet to sustain them until reproduction occurrs and those offspring are big enough to eat smallest pelelts, . The pellets at this point in time are to suppliment the natural foods being produced by the pond.

Bill, being so new at this whole business, obviously I don't have my own reference points yet, so I need to go by what you guys have long since figured out. I'll go to a 5-day-a-week schedule going forward, then see where I'm at in August.
I stocked FHM, GSH, SBS. I can already see lots of babies in the shallow area, so the little guys are already getting to work to prepare for the HSB that will arrive in late Oct.
Generally I watch the fish tearing into the pellets till the pellets are no longer visible. As I mentioned at the outset, they generally can't eat the pellets whole. I also often collect flies w/the zapper and toss those in as well; the fish attack those feverishly and swallow right away.

Theo: I love analogies; in this case the tractor one doesn't really apply for me, as I don't have any of those same requirements as you, like cattle/feed/etc. So Endurance will send me the food w/free shipping, that's all I need from them...no "service/warranty" that I can think of just ordering pellets, so I'm going to go w/Endurance and see how it goes.

Thanks for all the great info, guys!

BJ Nick, it all depends on how much you want to feed, and how fast (and large) you want your fish to grow. More feed = faster growth, bigger fish.

If your fish aren't feed trained, then I'd feed very minimally every day (7 days a week) at the same time and at the same place in the pond. I would concentrate on feeding in no more than 4' of water, where the prevailing wind will blow any uneaten feed over deeper water and not back to the bank. Feed them every day until you get a great, consistent feed response, then cut back to 5 days a week like Bill said.

I look at feeding fish in a pond 4 different ways.
1) Minimal supplemental feed to help fish get through "lean times" once they are consistently eating the food, which means feeding them on a regular basis but only feeding feed them enough that they can consume it all in 2-3 minutes. That keeps them conditioned to the feed, so that way if you want to feed more, they will know what the feed is and eat it more readily.

2) Feeding what they can consume in 10 minutes once a day to get them to grow faster but still have them consume a lot of natural forage in the pond.

3) Grow them moderately fast by feeding them what they can consume in 15 minutes 2x or even 3x day to have them still consume some natural forage but have them getting the majority of food from the artificial feed.

4) Grow fish in the pond the biggest and fastest that you can without creating a production pond. That means feeding them to satiation every day.

A customer wants to grow some big fish in his pond. 4 acre pond, but he only has 1 Texas Hunter Feeder that feeds 15 seconds 2x day but most evenings he also walks around the pond feeding the fish 2 coffee cans of food. We now are starting to have to plan on mitigating excess nutrients in the pond, but he also has 5 - 6 tiles feeding runoff from the surrounding corn/bean fields into his pond. Here's one of the fish from his pond.

It could weigh more since it is 12.5" in length, as much as possibly 3/4 pound more if it were to eat more food.