Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations White amars (sp)

Trying to recreate what I had on before:

Grass Carp, Tilapia, Shad, etc. - They do not create or destroy nutrients - they move it around.

Take your 1 lb GC that grows to 3 lbs in a year. It removes 2 lbs of plant matter from the pond (assuming the % of water in fish flesh and the plant are equivalent; if not, substitute the words "dry weight" and my argument remains). It consumes much more plant matter than that to fuel itself during the year, but that weight is not removed from the pond - just recycled back into nutrients.

(A VERY tiny amount of mass is converted into energy by the GC - E=MC squared - but that amount is truly miniscule AND is returned when plants use the nutrients and more energy from photosynthesis to grow. From a weight/mass standpoint, the mass equivalent of the energy involved in chemical reactions is negligable).

GC are good at recycling bulky plants they like to eat into nutrients. Tilapia are good at recycling FA into nutrients. Shad are good with plankton. And LMB & HSB are good at recycling small fish. The ecosystem turns these recycled nutrients back into more plants - what kinds depend on the plant species that are in the pond and what the resident fish allow to grow versus eating almost all of.

Nutrients can be removed from a pond by removing fish (catch & keep or ML's 4 legged dead tilapia cleanup crew), removing plants (raking), water flowing out with nutrients in it, or organic material turning into bottom muck. Nutrients can be added by feeding, fertilizing, or bugs & leaves blowing into the pond. But fish species do not eliminate nutrients - they move them around, possibly from one concentration of biomass (particular fish or plant species) to another.

Perhaps all this is rambling (had 3 hours sleep last night thanks to 10 year old with appendicitis scare & subsequent quality time in emergency room) but my point is, you guys (may) think you're disagreeing with each other when in fact you are looking at different parts of the same picture (like the blind men and the elephant, not that I mean any of you can't see what's going on).

I am sorry if removing this post in its earlier form (after I put it on I felt it was superfluous) or being flippant afterward contributed in any way to any misunderstandings. I agree with ALL of you (most of the time on everything, 100% I think on this post).

Theo :

Another classic post !! It reminds me of a statement made by a National Geographic scientist on the nature of matter. His point was that every single atom or element was here from the start and that while they have changed in form and compound there are no new ones they have just been moved around through various processes. The carbon atom in my arm has come across time and space to its current form and place through many changes. ewest

Ric, my friend, it seems someone has done you a disservice. I cast a rating vote for you and hope it corrects things.

Thanks Sunil, I hadn't noticed but you're right. Someone doesn't like my posts.

Ok just wanted simple answer did not mean to start a debate. I have made my own decisions on my pond. Though I appreciate all your guys help sometimes I believe you get away to deep into things. The bottom line is I want to catch fish, and some of you need to go back to the basics and maybe stop reading and learning and start doing some fishing. I was told not to put in crappie I did and certain times of year they are all thats biting and they are huge, this keeps my children interested and does not let them get discouraged. Like wise with channel cat we are now eating 24 inch plus cats with my children they are great. In last 2 days we have caught a 2 17 inch two 15 inch and 6 6 inch plus largemouth bass. I have numerous baby bass numerous baby bluegill and everything is thriving and growing faster that I can eat it. This all comes from a 1/2 acre pond that noone thought I stocked properly on here and my wife and family cant believe the fish that come out of it. I pretty much did what everyone said I shouldnt. All along I thought I really messed up my pond and here I am exactly 3 years later with these size fish. Go figure. So as for all the yes and nos on the algea eaters I say just do it and let mother nature do her thing.

That is why this forum is great. One can get lots of good usable information to sort through and decide what to do for themselves.

I will be very interested to see the condition of your pond at the 5 yr and 10 yrs. A lot of ponds "appear" to be "great" in the first few years. The longer term conditon of the fishery after 7 - 12 yrs really tells a more complete story of the pond and its managment.

The key is to take the advice that's available and apply it to your pond. You will read a lot of posts, some have good advice, others don't. I too run outside the norm...I'm stocking combinations unlike others. Each body of water is different...we should all be experimenting and learning. There are several threads going that are just like that...outside the norm and very productive. It's your pond, why not become a mad scientist ! Geez, look at what Bruce & Cecil have accomplished...who's next ?

I agree with Eastland, completely. You have to sift through the info you get and decide what's best for you and meeting your objectives. There is a strong tendency to not change, to not try new things, and to discourage those who do.

If you deviate from what some define as their norm, then those same folks will cream you....they will do so politely on the open Forum while at the same time manipulate the stars system and use e-mails and PM's to hide behind what they don't have the courage to do in public.

This is the internet, the great unknown. Someone may very well be posting who has never owned a pond, never managed a pond and never fished a pond. Some may have only read textbooks or papers or worse only read posts on this forum. Fortunately they are the exception and not the rule. You have to use your own experience as your chief guide.

Another important aspect of this is that all ponds are different. What works for one may not work at all for someone else. That's why Bill Cody almost always answers questions with a "it depends" answer.

Forums like this are only as good as the people who frequent them. All have good and bad. Ignore the bad and cherish the good...and always do what you believe is best for your pond and meeting your objectives. It isn't life and death, it should be fun. Enjoy the journey.

You all are right very good answers to my write up. The few guys on here I take the words they say as gospel, others I am not so sure about. All I know for sure is from the point of building a pond I knew nothing only what I read, now I know from experience, this is an excellent place to go on things that you have not experienced yet. It is a constant learning process and its nice to have a place where there is someone who is ahead of you and have already done it. I see emails I wrote just a couple years ago coming in and asking the same questions. As for my pond I will also be interested in seeing it in a couple more years I predict 5 t 8 pounders. I think the big trick where I am at now is harvesting if they are just let go it will only get worse but with the harvest I have started this year I think it will only get better. Only time will tell. I will keep you posted. Keep an eye out for my posts and questions because one thing I know I have a million more questions. Anyone know how snapping turtle soup tasted? Hopefully I will find out tommorrow.

bc,

In addition to future questions you may have, you now have an experience base from which to answer those questions you asked 2 years ago. You can be one of the good guys now and answer those questions from your experience base and help others as they too come along.

It is a journey. No one PB knows everything. We all need help and all of us likewise can offer help based on our own experiences. That's what being a PB is all about, I believe.

Also, just when you think you have mastered the perfect combination of water & fish, Mother Nature tosses you a curve and you never see it coming...you start learning all over again. Like Bob said at the conference...we don't own our water, we're borrowing it.