I have sunk Christmas trees in my 2 acre pond several times over the last 4-5 years - is it a good idea to sink some more every few years? I assume the tree cover breaks down over time and therefore does not provide as much cover?
There is an old cartoon showing the shape of cedars as they "age" in the pond. (It has been posted several times.)
I personally think the cover changing over time is a big advantage. Small forage fish will hide in the dense cover of a new brushy cedar. After five years when it is mostly just a trunk, your LMB might use it as ambush cover.
Sure beats putting all of your cedars into the burn pile!
For my 1/4 neighborhood pond, I try to put in the 3-5 clumps of three trees each.
The decay process hits the smallest limbs first and then on down until you have the trunk and some nubs of the larger branches.
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
Since you have some right at the water's edge, have you ever tried hinge-cutting any so the tree will remain alive even after being felled?
(I did a few of those for quail cover at my field edges, and most of them provided good cover for many years.)
I do NOT know what happens when you fell a tree into a pond? I assume you will get vertical water sprout branches off of the horizontal trunk, but I don't know if the woody material IN the water would last longer? If not, then I guess you would only get a negative outcome of more leaves in the pond.
Rod, every couple of years, I cut cedars to afford cover for small fish. Since Lusk told me to do it, I assume that it works. I tie a cinder block to keep it in place. In a 2 acre pond I put about 10 cedars that I drag to the water by tractor. Grandsons have to do the labor. The old guy can’t go down an incline dragging a tree, getting it out into the water and then securing it.
However, I find that I can’t cut enough to whip the cormorants. They last a couple of years but they can only provide protection for a small amount of fish and the birds come in flocks. I live 70 miles away and would have to be there daily during spring and fall migrations with a shotgun. BTW, the Game Warden tells me that they are a protected species but what he doesn’t know isn’t going to cause him to lose sleep at night.
When summer hits with no rain, I have to get the trees out further in the water. I? Actually, I supervise and buy beer.
I consider them welfare recipients that I spend $$$$ to feed.
Thus, the myth of the balanced pond. Been fighting this for over 30 years. And, if I shot one, I would keep my mouth shut about it. Not saying I have but……
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP Grandpa
I have Cormorants visit every so often at my pond - I do not kill them but I do go out with my shotgun and shoot it near or over them - they figure out pretty quickly that they are not welcome here and do not return
Rod, every couple of years, I cut cedars to afford cover for small fish. Since Lusk told me to do it, I assume that it works. I tie a cinder block to keep it in place. In a 2 acre pond I put about 10 cedars that I drag to the water by tractor. Grandsons have to do the labor. The old guy can’t go down an incline dragging a tree, getting it out into the water and then securing it.
However, I find that I can’t cut enough to whip the cormorants. They last a couple of years but they can only provide protection for a small amount of fish and the birds come in flocks. I live 70 miles away and would have to be there daily during spring and fall migrations with a shotgun. BTW, the Game Warden tells me that they are a protected species but what he doesn’t know isn’t going to cause him to lose sleep at night.
When summer hits with no rain, I have to get the trees out further in the water. I? Actually, I supervise and buy beer.
I consider them welfare recipients that I spend $$$$ to feed.
Thus, the myth of the balanced pond. Been fighting this for over 30 years. And, if I shot one, I would keep my mouth shut about it. Not saying I have but……
Dave, if you stock the pond again and don't have any big fish in there, I wonder what would happen if you had a gill net in there that would allow the newly stocked small fish to swim through it but not anything larger? I wonder how many cormorants would get caught in the net?
When it comes to structure, complex or simple. Is there anything wrong with having little or no long term stationary structure but have temporary structure as in Pond weed, chara, etc. 6-7 months a year. Dense, as in 50% of the pond . Then almost nothing when it all dies off in the late fall ?
When it comes to structure, complex or simple. Is there anything wrong with having little or no long term stationary structure but have temporary structure as in Pond weed, chara, etc. 6-7 months a year. Dense, as in 50% of the pond . Then almost nothing when it all dies off in the late fall ?
The downside to that is when it dies back the forage base in the pond get hits HARD. It can get over eaten and have a hard time recovering in the Spring. Without cover in the pond the predators have to swim more to find food, and since they cannot ambush prey they expend more energy because they have less success in catching prey. They don't catch something to eat every time they try, so when they DO catch something it has to make up for all the calories burned in the previous unsuccessful attempts.
Structure = fixed things that are part of the pond. i.e. drop offs, humps or underwater rises, points going out into the pond, etc.
Cover = Temporary, movable things, even though they may be hard to move. i.e. weed beds, fallen trees, artificial cover, pine tree piles/pyramids, piles of pallets, piles of rocks, etc.
When it comes to structure, complex or simple. Is there anything wrong with having little or no long term stationary structure but have temporary structure as in Pond weed, chara, etc. 6-7 months a year. Dense, as in 50% of the pond . Then almost nothing when it all dies off in the late fall ?
The downside to that is when it dies back the forage base in the pond get hits HARD. It can get over eaten and have a hard time recovering in the Spring. Without cover in the pond the predators have to swim more to find food, and since they cannot ambush prey they expend more energy because they have less success in catching prey. They don't catch something to eat every time they try, so when they DO catch something it has to make up for all the calories burned in the previous unsuccessful attempts.
Structure = fixed things that are part of the pond. i.e. drop offs, humps or underwater rises, points going out into the pond, etc.
Cover = Temporary, movable things, even though they may be hard to move. i.e. weed beds, fallen trees, artificial cover, pine tree piles/pyramids, piles of pallets, piles of rocks, etc.
I have very little to none of the above. It’s been running threw my head that some cover needs to be added, but what an undertaking it would be to even add 10% Thought I read somewhere else on here that your LMB only eat something like 1/64 of normal consumption when the water is under 40* ? I guess they get to eat crawfish during the winter 😂
Rod, every couple of years, I cut cedars to afford cover for small fish. Since Lusk told me to do it, I assume that it works. I tie a cinder block to keep it in place. In a 2 acre pond I put about 10 cedars that I drag to the water by tractor. Grandsons have to do the labor. The old guy can’t go down an incline dragging a tree, getting it out into the water and then securing it.
However, I find that I can’t cut enough to whip the cormorants. They last a couple of years but they can only provide protection for a small amount of fish and the birds come in flocks. I live 70 miles away and would have to be there daily during spring and fall migrations with a shotgun. BTW, the Game Warden tells me that they are a protected species but what he doesn’t know isn’t going to cause him to lose sleep at night.
When summer hits with no rain, I have to get the trees out further in the water. I? Actually, I supervise and buy beer.
I consider them welfare recipients that I spend $$$$ to feed.
Thus, the myth of the balanced pond. Been fighting this for over 30 years. And, if I shot one, I would keep my mouth shut about it. Not saying I have but……
When it comes to structure, complex or simple. Is there anything wrong with having little or no long term stationary structure but have temporary structure as in Pond weed, chara, etc. 6-7 months a year. Dense, as in 50% of the pond . Then almost nothing when it all dies off in the late fall ?
The downside to that is when it dies back the forage base in the pond get hits HARD. It can get over eaten and have a hard time recovering in the Spring. Without cover in the pond the predators have to swim more to find food, and since they cannot ambush prey they expend more energy because they have less success in catching prey. They don't catch something to eat every time they try, so when they DO catch something it has to make up for all the calories burned in the previous unsuccessful attempts.
Structure = fixed things that are part of the pond. i.e. drop offs, humps or underwater rises, points going out into the pond, etc.
Cover = Temporary, movable things, even though they may be hard to move. i.e. weed beds, fallen trees, artificial cover, pine tree piles/pyramids, piles of pallets, piles of rocks, etc.
I have very little to none of the above. It’s been running threw my head that some cover needs to be added, but what an undertaking it would be to even add 10% Thought I read somewhere else on here that your LMB only eat something like 1/64 of normal consumption when the water is under 40* ? I guess they get to eat crawfish during the winter 😂
Crawfish will bury themselves in the mud to sort of hibernate.
You don't have to add it all at once. Make a plan and start doing some every weekend, or at least every month. Bass in a pond with no cover are like marathon runners. Burning lots of calories swimming all the time looking for food. Not loafing near cover waiting to ambush their food, so they need even more food to maintain weight. Cover from shallow water for summer use to deep cover for winter use. There is a large thread about it in the archives to give you some ideas of what to use and how to place it.
Here is an interesting post I just received from the Michigan DNR about Christmas trees as fish cover. This is the first time I have seen the practice not recommended. They mention that it is a soft wood (of course) and that the limbs are too dense for fish to hide (never heard that before).
Here is an interesting post I just received from the Michigan DNR about Christmas trees as fish cover. This is the first time I have seen the practice not recommended. They mention that it is a soft wood (of course) and that the limbs are too dense for fish to hide (never heard that before).
Here is an interesting post I just received from the Michigan DNR about Christmas trees as fish cover. This is the first time I have seen the practice not recommended. They mention that it is a soft wood (of course) and that the limbs are too dense for fish to hide (never heard that before).
I tend to almost agree with them to a certain extent, a Christmas or fir tree, much like a cedar tree, thrown into the water green, tends to moss over in a huge moss ball the first yr or two, I have better luck letting cedars lay for a few months then flash burn the needles off of them, the char will sort of preserve them and they seem to make way better cover for a longer period of time without the needles. jmo
Last edited by gehajake; 12/26/2406:35 PM.
All the really good ideas I've ever had came to me while I was milking a cow.
Here is an interesting post I just received from the Michigan DNR about Christmas trees as fish cover. This is the first time I have seen the practice not recommended. They mention that it is a soft wood (of course) and that the limbs are too dense for fish to hide (never heard that before).
I tend to almost agree with them to a certain extent, a Christmas or fir tree, much like a cedar tree, thrown into the water green, tends to moss over in a huge moss ball the first yr or two, I have better luck letting cedars lay for a few months then flash burn the needles off of them, the char will sort of preserve them and they seem to make way better cover for a longer period of time without the needles. jmo
Hell, I thought I was the only one that burned my trees before sinking them. Glad to know there are more of us out there!
Here is an interesting post I just received from the Michigan DNR about Christmas trees as fish cover. This is the first time I have seen the practice not recommended. They mention that it is a soft wood (of course) and that the limbs are too dense for fish to hide (never heard that before).
I tend to almost agree with them to a certain extent, a Christmas or fir tree, much like a cedar tree, thrown into the water green, tends to moss over in a huge moss ball the first yr or two, I have better luck letting cedars lay for a few months then flash burn the needles off of them, the char will sort of preserve them and they seem to make way better cover for a longer period of time without the needles. jmo
Hell, I thought I was the only one that burned my trees before sinking them. Glad to know there are more of us out there!
I have never heard of burning a Christmas tree first -
Jake, I don’t sweat the green stuff. I just toss it in the water wired to a cinder block. The green stuff is gone, in my area, in a month. 2 years, and a big rain later, they are floating about 6 ft from the shore. They were about 6 to 8 ft tall when I cut them. Time to get the grandsons wound up to do some more. I think the cormorants got me again this year. I’ll be stocking about a thousand 3 to 4 inch bluegills and lieing to my wife about the cost. My problem is not knowing about the predators(bass) to have balance. I’ll probably have to find some 4 to 6 inch bass to grow up with the bluegills.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP Grandpa
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