Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction natural bacteria better than copper sulfate?

Newbie to the site here! I have a 1 year old .60 acre pond in HOT Texas and I am facing my first algae issue. Unfortunately it looks and acts like cyanobacteria as it is a non-filamentous sheen of green that sunk down into the water last night and reappeared today. As it is a newer pond, it does not have complete grass coverage around the banks yet so I have that issue that's hurting. Purposely placed to capture great run-off on 2 sides, I also am now realizing the double edged sword of being in a fertilized coastal field with the fertilizer runoff! There are no fish in the pond yet.
I train field trial dogs and this obviously petrifies me! I immediately ordered Copper Sulfate and while awaiting its delivery I have researched the wisdom of using it due to its active afterlife in the sediment. I've learned of the use of phosphorus binders and will certainly do that, but I am wondering if that is where I should start? Would a binder alone, in time, naturally destroy a cyanobacteria?
I appreciate any and all advice!

Are you getting blue green algae confused with Cyanobacteria? Why copper sulfate and not Cutrine Plus? All the cyanobacteria that I've seen has been teal blue in color. Not to say that yours isn't Cyano though.

I read up a little more on cyanobacteria after originally reading this post, and it seems to be a rather complicated topic!

Obviously, it would be a critical issue for humans using a BOW as a source of drinking water. I believe the OP has the second most critical use - namely heavy usage of the pond by dogs.

I did look up the cost of lab testing for cyanobacteria, and it appeared to be fairly expensive.

esshup (and others),

Are there any agencies in Texas that would perform the test for private waters at a reasonable fee? If not, any commercial labs across the nation that anyone has used?

I think esshup is probably correct that it is a non-dangerous blue-green algae, but the price of being wrong would obviously be very high.

Unfortunately it added that confirming color today

Thank you, sir for responding. I guess I was using Cyanobacteria and BGA interchangeably and incorrectly! I'm trying to read as much as I can on this right now to try to get this pond back to being usable. I asked a more experienced dog trainer for advice and was told to get the copper sulfate, throw in several dixie cups of it and likely be able to get the dogs back in there in 3 days....so I quickly ordered some and did that last evening. This morning the bloom had more than doubled in size and the previous photo I uploaded shows the addition of the teal colored algae. At the moment there is nothing on the surface but I see a large green shadow down in the water. (my water has never been clear but murky brown from the clay.)
I am sure you all remember all the dogs that were killed by a BGA bloom in the Salt Lake area last year; that trainer lost 6 dogs I believe, and some from eating the dried algae crust! I am petrified of it and immediately treated it as if I knew it had toxins!
Should I use the Cutrine Plus now as I think I haven't killed the monster yet? My extension agent is also promoting a nutrient binder (Phoslock, NT-Max). What do you recommend and at what point can I add it? The bloom has been blown to one end of the pond and the weather pattern should keep it there. Sorry for all the questions...I so appreciate your help!

Now you are talking to an algae specialist - called a phycologist - Masters degree & 52 yrs trained. I can identify the problem material but you have to preserve some of it and send it to me. However all this at this point will take time. One common way to quickly tell if you have a cyanobacteria surface film problem is gather some water 1/2 full in a water bottle. Cap it. Let it sit for 6-8 hrs, uncap and smell it. If the air in the bottle smells vile, putrid, earthy or some form of bad smell, you have a problem form of Cyanobacteria. Sometimes they are toxic and sometimes not toxic. Science still does not completely understand why yet,,, but they suspect the amount of nitrogen present is a big reason (?). When they die and lyse (lysis) , they release the toxin. If the air in the bottle does not have a rank smell then the surface film is likely another form of numerous common green biflagellate algae or another mobile algae type that moves up and down from the surface - Euglena (red & green types); red ones can be somewhat toxic. Euglena are usually common in older ponds.

Firstly - esshup is correct Cutrine Plus liquid is a much better algaecide than CuSO4; both have copper (Cu) as the active ingredient. I very rarely ever suggest CuSO4 because it utilizes more metalic Cu per treatment to do the algae killing. I do like the Cu based algaecides.. Not a good thing - ecologically nor long term.

Secondly - you applied the copper sulfate incorrectly. You should never just toss it in the pond. This is very wasteful and very unwise,,, ineffective usage. It should be dissolved first and sprayed on the algae or drug through the problem area of filaments as granules in a sock or pillow type case so it dissolves as it is drug around in the problem area. The dissolved Cu ions very quickly within a few minutes to a couple hours depending on water chemistry become bound up with the carbonates (hardness), the suspended organics, plus the algae, protozoans, zooplankton, invertebrates, bacteria and fish fry that it can kill if the concentration is correct. All Cu eventually absorbed or bound then soon goes into the sediments to accumulate as a heavy metal, not to decompose. Metals are stable and usually bound in the environment.

Thirdly - the Curtrine Plus comes in two forms - liquid and granular. In your case you should be using the liquid form. If it were me applying Cutrine I would dilute the Cutrine with water 8:1 or 10:1 and spray it on the surface films as they are blown toward the shoreline.

Fourthly - IMO you are getting bad advice from the "dog" people. It is like having cancer and going to a neighbor for treatment. If you want the safest algaecide especially for dog use and ecologically for your particular situation use one of the hydrogen peroxide based algaecides - Green Clean Plus granular or liquid (27%-30% H2O2) or Phycomycin (aka Sodium Carbonate Peroxyhydrate) . Very safe, especially effective on Cyanobacteria especially surface films. Your extension agent could be correct in that a Phos binder can be useful IF excessive nutrients are the causative agent for the green film. In a new pond you might just be dealing with a green algae surface bloom common in new ponds when the nutrient balance is optimum but not necessarily excessive - depends on the specie of algae and its nutrient requirement for growing or blooming. Ponds by nature are nutrient collection basins and more trapped nutrients cause more algae to grow. High nutrient inputs can be problematic for algae growths in ponds. It all depends on the nutrient balance of N and P as to what ones grow. N:P ratio is important for who grows. Repetitive frequent use of Phos binders could also eventually be an ecological problem.

Thank you Mr. Cody for all your professional advice! The water bottle test is interesting as I ran across a suggestion very close to this. Those instructions were to gather water from below the surface film, cap it and put it in the frig overnight. If there was a ring of algae/foam at the top (versus settling to the bottom) it might be cyanobacteria. I did that 2 nights ago and there was a ring at the top....but I did not smell it. Wish I'd smelled it!
So, at this point after doing everything wrong, I'm understanding your advice to be that I need to get one of the hydrogen peroxide based algaecides for future use. And that I should Not start a Phos binder at this point.

If this current bloom comes back to the surface, shall I use the safer algaecide when I am able to get it? Or do I let this bloom run its course?

How long after the bloom dissipates is the water safe for use?

Again, I can't thank you enough for your help. I'm red-faced for having botched everything in my haste to get rid of this scary stuff. Your advice is very much appreciated.

Listen to what Bill says. I trust him more than anybody else in regards to Algae.

I would go with Green Clean Plus or Phycomycin first, then liquid Cutrine Plus 3rd. I agree with the Cut+ to be mixed 1:10 then sprayed on the water. You just can't "dump it in". Phyco is considered to be a strong oxidizer, and as such it has to be shipped via truck with a HazMat sticker and the added costs. It can't be put on a plane to get it across the country - at least not a public carriers plane without the HazMat issues.

I have made a delivery to an airport and got permission to drive out on the tarmac to deliver 10 bags of Phyco to a customer that flew their plane in to pick it up. That felt like a scene from a movie. LOL

Thank you for your advice! I absolutely will follow Mr. Cody's advice and am ordering the Green Clean.
Today the downwind surface is back to a swirling green film but nothing thick yet like the first picture. There is so much hay being cut all around me this would almost make me wonder if this is a pollen issue with the exception of that teal blue that came out yesterday. Possibly I caused that by adding the copper and killing of whatever the algae is/was? I can tell you I am afraid to touch it now for fear of doing something wrong! It will be several days before the GreenClean arrives so I have a lot of time to learn more about my new pond. I am so appreciative of this forum!!

Often you can go to a pond management place or fish farm and they often sell GreenClean Pro or Phycomycin. It is best to spread the granular peroxygen as if you were spreading grass seed on the down wind surface films to TRIM the bloom as it develops. Try to get an even coverage on the surface films and nearby area. Periodically trim the blooms as you trim your lawn grass. Green water is usually safe until it starts forming paint like surface films. Then treat the surface films as they gather on the down wind side.

Yes the copper treatment probably caused the algae to die, the cells break down and change the color to bluish green. The toxins from small or partial bloom trims are usually not concentrated enough to be harmful to dogs and humans. It is when one kills all the algae in the entire pond water volume that lots of toxins at a high concentration are released by all the cell decay. Also dogs eating or licking off the thick layers of Cyano algae is wen they have health problems. This is why keeping the early surface smallish blooms trimmed back is important.

Bill,

Thanks for including a testing technique for cyanobacteria! Step one in fixing a problem is always to correctly identify the problem.