Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations I made a alotta babies...time for lmb?

So it looks like my dam blowout didn't cause a major loss of pumpkinseeds. I put about 4000 in my 6 acre pond last August, of all sizes and after my dam blow out I noticed lots of 1 inch or smaller that survived as well as some big ones. Over that last month I've snorkelled the repaired lake and found lots of active nests and now I have probably 10s of thousands of these little fellas. Some are just hatched and I also have zillions of 3 to 4 inches. I suspect I better get some LMB in there, would I start with fingerlings or fry or put a few larger ones in? I've noticed that these are growing very fast now.

These are stills from video, I'll post the video tomorrow night...it's pretty insane lol.

Don't stock adult LMB,3"-5" would be plenty. What are your goals for the pond? That will determine how many to stock.

My goals are a bit of diversity and we eat most of them. I have about 1200 trout in there that we are catching and eating often, the bald eagles like them too, when they are gone I might only restock with about 30 2 to 3 pounders . I'd like to grow some large mouth bass as well as they are fun to catch. In the future I'd like to put 100 or so walleye in it if I can find them.

Thanks for your help!

Great pictures!!

No love for Smallmouth?

Are you sure all of those are PS ?

I would go with SMB and not LMB if they are all PS.

Pretty sure they are all PS.

Why SMB over LMB?

I think, and I hope somebody corrects me if I'm wrong, but it relates to ultimate size of the fish PS at 7-9" vs BG at 10-12" and recruitment with PS laying up to 14,000 eggs per season and BG laying up to 60,000 eggs per season. Those numbers vary a little bit on the web from what I could see. Larger fish spawn greater amounts.

In the case of SMB with a smaller gape more of the PS will survive and ultimately recruit.
In the case of LMB with a larger gape less of the PS will survive and ultimately recruit.

Couple that with fewer eggs per season PS compared to BG and you could end up with a shortage in the forage base.

Just me guessing though....hopefully one of the pros will chime in.


Pumpkinseed Eggs per Season

Bluegill Eggs per season


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Exactly

OK yes I see, and wondered about that, I also wondered about the effect of the PS on LMB and SMB eggs when they spawn - I hear the PS are pretty notorious nest robbers. I can introduce Bluegill as well if needed.

My question is about when they start to hybrid, will my lake just eventually be full of hybrids? Do they grow as big or stunt? I can manage LMB numbers by fishing with no problem but as you point out I dont want to run out of forage. I can put either SMB or LMB in - I have access to both.

Thanks!

Here is a video of some of the action...this is from one small area of the lake, it's like this all over...I'm blown away how fast they blew up.

Video is uploading might take a few mins.

Very nice vid of the fish. I have no idea on the cross or how frequently is would occur but I did google an image to see what they look like.

I mean....how can you go wrong with glow in the dark fish?

Lol so cool!

I have seen people start their ponds with Rosy Red fathead minnows so they will be easier for the newly stocked predators to find.

Can you imagine being a hungry, growing SMB or LMB in a lake chock full of glow-in-the-dark Pumpkinseeds? The bass must think they are in fish heaven!

That was the reason we put rosy reds in Rod. The water was stained and the reds are much easier to see (at least with my eyes). Not sure if the predators can see any difference.

There were lots of variations in the colors of the punkingils but that one caught me eye for sure.

One other thing I didn't mention above TinyLake. I'd guess your geographic location may play into spawning some too. Those links I posted may not be accurate for your area. Just more food for thought...

See Boondoggle's post earlier in the thread.

Ok I can put bluegill in as well as I'd like LMB.

Any idea on the numbers I can stick based on the trour I have in there now and what I'd like to put in?

We are keeping most of the trout we catch like I said and I suspect the fingerling brookies will get gobbled up by the bass in short order.

Also, this might sound weird but do 6 acre ponds develop fish slime on the surface if there are lots of fish in it? When the fish farm put the trout in a big garbage can while weighing the water quickly turned to fish a mess of fish slime it was pretty nuts, it might be my imagination but the surface of the lake seems a little slimy..also smelled a bit like fish a couple of weeks ago but thr rain has fixed that.

I check DO and at surface over 14ppm, 4 feet down 7ppm, 13 feet right at bottom 3ppm no aeration. I'll check ph later today.
Cheers

Seemed as though one of my limiting factors I faced when trying to stock our new pond was fish availability. After watching all of the vids on youtube, reading posts here on the forum and talking with fish hatcheries our plan had to be modified a bit to fit with what was available. I really wanted to stock some 4-6" BG in a limited quantity to jump start the spawning along with the larger quantity of smaller fish.. Managed to find a very select few 4-5" with a majority of the fish in the 3+" range. I didn't want to bucket stock from the local lakes as it seems almost every lake in KS is a zerba muscle breeding ground and I really don't want that in the pond.

My gut tells me you will need to stock some fish that are large enough that the Rainbows can't eat them or you are stocking a quantity that is big enough on small fish to give them a good chance to grow a bit knowing that some will be forage and some will recruit. The good news is that it sounds like you already have PS in the water and the PS have pulled off a spawn. I have a number in mind, but given my lack of experience with your region and experience in pond management overall I would defer to one of the our pros for sure.

Never heard of a fish slime on the water. I did recently see a skim coat of algae (could have been pollen) on ours but it didn't smell like fish. Much like yours, it was there for a day or two and them gone after a little wind and rain.

Looking forward to following along as more people provide some info or ask questions.

Ok just to back track a bit, the stocking of PS that I did last year was about 4000, maybe closer to 6000 ranging in size from 1 inch to 9 inches. The average would have been about 4 to 6 inch and they had a spawn just after I put them in..those are the ones I see growing quickly from about 2 to 3 inches now. There were no predators in there until I put the rainbows in and they don't seem to go after fish until about 16 inches long and I'd only have about 30 to 40 in that range if I remember correctly. The entire shoreline is a fast highway of sunfish now with no way to know how many but thousands doesn't do it justice...might be hundreds of thousands it seems.

I do have the ability to put mature bluegill in here this week and might even get a spawn out of them...not sure but if I do ill need predators to start knocking these down....atheist I think I do lol.

You should not have a problem with forage for LMB right now. It is 2-3 years down the road that a problem might arise. With that many PS the BG may not spawn successfully this summer. I would look to adding adult BG early next spring. You could add adult BG now but they may not spawn this summer. Both BG and PS are known to stunt and cross. I would not suggest stocking yoy 2inch LMB into a pond with that many PS and RT. Look for some 6 inch LMB this fall (early) but no more than 10 per acre to start.

Lusk said it best. Only bluegills can spawn enough to feed bass and only bass can keep up with the never ending bluegill spawns.

Makes sense. I have a question though, a lake near us has only PS, LMB, SMB, rock bass and some pike, no bluegill. Ive been fishing that lake for almost 40 years and the bass and PS fishing has always been outstanding. A week or so ago we saw schools of a dozen or more 1s, 2s, 3 pounders cruising the shorelines. I guess a lake ecosystem differs from a 6 acre lake but the fact remains that the PS population still supports some amazing bass fishing - not hard to catch 5 and 6 pounders which is rare for this area. How does this happen without the spawn crazy BG?

Crazy amounts of spawning certainly helps create a productive forage base. However, there are many other important factors.

6# LMB in Ontario are not eating PS fingerlings, they are eating very large PS. Your good bass lake almost certainly has very favorable conditions to raise large PS.

Also, how big are the biggest rock bass? I have fished with kids in Ontario and caught a rock bass every cast that would certainly be an excellent meal for at least a medium-sized bass ... and a meal for the next day ... and a meal for the next day.

Finally, you did not list yellow perch in the lake population. If that lake does have them, a long (fusiform) YP is a lot of calories that are easily swallowed by a big bass.

Hmmm...Might need some additional input data. What are the chances you could get some length and weight data of the fish to see RW of the fish. I'm going to guess that there could also be some regional growing season differences that could apply here too as you pond will differ from anything in more southern waters. That's a 100% guess from me though based off of comments that I've seen from people being cautious applying the same principals from the southern zips to mid-west or more northern zips.