ML and Greg :

I have followed your debate on the aggressive trait , feeding behavior and forage bases , { I include pond carrying capicity } and genetics { the why and how fish act} with great interest. In essence you {pl} are covering the entire spectrum of the fish part of pond management. As you know I am eager to learn as much as possible about this and am and have been for some time conducting my own tests on the specifics of fish { LMB & BG/RE } behavior. Recently on the fourm we have been posting on genetics which is obviously a large part of this. For an example see the following , especialy Norm's last comment on pure genetic vs. learned behavior and the rate of genetic change of each.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001834

Each of you know that I think highly of your opinions and am grateful for your efforts on the fourm. On this topic there is truth in both of your positions but I think there is more to the answer than any of us understand , given the current state of the knowledge base. We are each in our own way trying to add to the info base so that we all may understand better that which eludes us. Each is to be thanked and encouraged for the efforts and none criticized .

Both the scientific and engineering method are similar and you are each using it to test and draw conclusions . I don't think we have the answer yet and we are all struggling for an answer . That is why it interests us so much .
The quest for answers is the journey we are on and it is about enjoying the collective trip not about getting one answer right. Many times a correct and accepted scientific answer is later proved wrong.

A couple of basic points to start. Each pond is different . Each pond fish population is different including the genetics of the same species . Each pond's carrying capicity is different based on many factors. All of these enter into the equation. ML I did not think that your pond was much different from mine {and probably most of Greg's} in this respect until I saw the picture and BM's comment about your bloom. Our ponds require fert. to look like yours [with cow fert.}. We are all attempting to get to the right productivity range with fert/soils and/or feeders with no side effects. It would be an error for you to fert. and it would be an error for me not to fert. to reach the correct productivity range.

To the point . I do not think the answer to your questions is just feeders [ or type of protien ] nor is it that full fish are more aggressive . I think both play a part . Aggression and feeding are not identical and many things effect catch rates . Much of it is genetic and over time genetic traits change as a result of outside conditions. Further the different traits change at different rates as Norm noted. I will not go into the different papers I have read looking for an answer. I will use one example that I am testing on to make the point.

Lake {16 acres}. Fert. with no feeders. Has nort. , fla. and all % cross of LMB and healthy population of BG & RE. RW on all are well above normal and all LMB and sunfish are very healthy and get plenty to eat. However over the last 4 years LMB aggresivness has dropped with minor improvement this year . Populations of all fish are balanced and all sizes of all types. Forage base strong. Near by 6 acre lake with same facts and problem but it has limited feeding . Fish in lakes are of different original genetic make up but additions are of same genetic make up.

Given the differences and similarities why the drop in catchability { aggression}. I don't know but am trying to find out. I don't think it can be explained just by feeders or full vs. hungry fish . They may both be part of the answer . I bet there is more to the answer than that , and it may be , I acknowledge based on faulty observation or the inability to control the test paramenters.

Sorry for the length of my 2 cents worth. I wish all of us good luck , cooperation and friendship on the journey . ewest