Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Pond liner for my new 1/4 acre pond

My 1/4 acre pond was completed a few weeks ago. Since May 1st, watching as scattered rain / thunderstorms contribute water to fill it. I was told from the beginning that hopefully w/at least a solid foot of hard-packed red clay, it should hold, but that if it didn't, the options would be bentonite or a liner. The guy who did most of the hardcore excavating has been doing lots of pond- related work for me, including erosion control grass, directing water from the gutters/runoff to the pond, assorted dozer jobs, etc. In observing the daily filling/water loss I've getting, he doubts the pond will hold water long-term as it is , and doesn't consider Bentonite a good bet. He's had lots of experience with ponds and installing liners, and thinks it's the best solution.

I would be interested in any comments people have, as well as recommendations for which company/brand of liner I should use. (Middle Tennessee, about an hour east of Nashville.)

Note: I've tried many times to have the image oriented correctly but apparently I have no clue how. It looks perfect on my screen but landscape view here (ugh. Please explain how to do this as it is apparently non-intuitive here....or, I'm doing something boneheaded, which is always a possibility. :-)

Put the image on Imgur and then put it here. That's the easiest way for me. Look at Bend Tarp Liners.

How did the builder compact the clay liner?

It does NOT look hard-packed in the photo. (But that is a poor way to evaluate compaction.)

It looks a little fluffy. Any chance the clay blanket went through a few freeze/thaw cycles when it was slightly damp, but the pond had not yet filled with water?

Yeah.....the compaction.......original excavator guy, Mike, has worked on many ponds; very knowledgeable. Had to leave job to recover from medical situation, but kept abreast of the project. When clay was going in he told the boss exactly how to properly compact it, which boss apparently ignored. When Mike saw the work after completion, he just shook his head, pointed to various indications that clay was not properly applied. When pond started filling after rains he said well, maybe you get lucky. Now he says forget it: get the liner.

We called BTL after Mike did all the measurements (14,000' sq., which includes plenty of room for trench all the way around). Price is $7100 which includes $850 shipping. 30mil RPE, 20-year guarantee, etc.

I figure I should probably call another company or two, just to get a comparison, but it means something to me that BTL was recommended here....

Nick:

The guarantee is if it's exposed to sunlight. It will last forever if covered with 12" of dirt. Fish/plants will need the substrate to spawn in and grow, and the dirt helps grow plants/bacteria which will be your biological filter for the pond.

Talk to Mike about how to cover the liner without poking a hole in it, or have him do it after he recovers.

Nick,

You MIGHT still be able to seal the pond for less expense with proper compaction.

What is your max depth? A one foot clay blanket can readily seal to 10 feet of depth.

Procedure:

Drain pond and let dry.

Disc deeply. Use the heaviest disc that you can get into that small space. A 24" inch disk blade set at 25% depth would get you 6". You might try to set a little over 25% if that is workable for your conditions. (Your disc operations would have to be done such that you are NOT working clay high on the sides of the ponds down into the bottom!)

Get a water source and sprayer to the location. Spray lightly, then cease while water percolates downwards. Repeat as needed. The goal of this step is to have the clay dry enough at the surface so as not to be runny and slick, but wet enough that when you dig down 6" with a shovel and grab some clay, you can start to make a clay snowball.

Run in a sheepsfoot type compactor. Either pulled behind a tractor, or a self-propelled unit. Compact until the feet walk up out of the clay. You may have to lightly spray some more water during this process if the clay is drying out. (Dry clay cannot be effectively compacted.)

No guarantees on that procedure. However, it may be doable DIY if you own a tractor and can rent the necessary compaction equipment. Your builder could probably also do that work with his existing equipment plus what he may need to rent.

I totally agree with your builder that if a properly constructed and compacted pond heavily leaks, then a liner is a good solution. However, your pond was NOT properly compacted.

Maybe talk to your builder about my solution above and get his "chances of success" and a bid estimate? That would be much cheaper than a liner plus installation - but no guarantee.

Finally, a good, honest local pond builder >>>>> always greater than a random dude on the internet from far away!

Thank you for this....just one more confirmation that Mike knows his stuff: he explained pretty much EXACTLY what you lay out here......but the key was that in the end, as you say:

"No guarantees on that procedure."

So, if I would STILL not have a 100% guarantee that it would hold, I agree with him that it's best to just bite the bullet and go for the liner.

As far as "..... a good, honest local pond builder >>>>> always greater than a random dude on the internet from far away![/quote]

That's what I did: I talked to a bunch of people, and decided to go with this company. And in most respects, I've very happy with their work. His vision/plan for things was great, he was reliable and communicative, etc. And he did tell me right from the beginning: the clay SHOULD hold, but next step would be bentonite, and if it it still doesn't hold, a liner. Unfortunately, he cut corners on the compacting, so we didn't get a genuine shot at seeing if it worked.....but Mike said I needed the clay regardless; the earth here is so rocky and craggy anyway. So....it is what it is. And I'm relieved I won't have to be sweating every rainfall from now on, wondering if it'll hold.

I was with Lusk and Mike Otto when Mike told Bob “Dammit, dirt is porous. It leaks.”.

"Peace of mind" does have a value all of its own!

I sure hope you get a nice pond built with the liner in the near future!

If you have some questions about the project after doing your planning with the contractor, come back and post some more. I think esshup may be our most experienced member on those types of installations. (I have a buddy that does liner installations for decorative ponds and waterfalls in people's backyards. But hat is a very different animal.)

P.S. When I was referring to a random dude on the internet giving out possibly dubious advice - I was talking about ME!

Haha.....I wouldn't think of you as "some random dude on the internet." Not by a long shot. Regardless, I always appreciate feedback....it's an involved process, creating a pond. And it's really fun, too, seeing things develop, seeing a pool of rainwater filling up with polliwogs.....lots to look forward to, for sure......though I'm wondering what to do with the pollywogs once we have to drain the water to lay down the liner.