Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose New 2 acre pond stocking plan

I just wanted to get some feedback on my stocking plan, I have done a lot of research and just wanted to make sure I am on the right path. Thank you...

Central Indiana - Brand New Pond dug in summer of 2023
2 acre pond, 12 feet deep at its deepest.
Lots of fish structure and a very large breeding area with sand and various size fish structures.
Have two Texas Feeders on the pond, will feed Optimal Fish Food
(qty 4) dual head aerators spread out in the pond

Stocked Late Summer of 2023
100 lbs Fathead Minnows
100 lbs Golden Shiners

Stocking this late March 2024
3000 Bluegill 2"- 3"
1000 Bluegill 3"- 4"
1000 Redear 2"- 3"
12 Grass Carp

Next year early summer 2025
100 Large Mouth Bass
50 Hybrid Striped Bass

I appreciate any feedback and recommendations, but please provide reasoning for recommendations.

1., why grass carp?
2., What size bass will be stocked in 25? If less than 8", stock 2500 4-5" BG and forget the 3000 2-3".
3., I like the LMB numbers in general, size may change my mind.
4., I would be inclined to wait until fall of 25 or spring of 26 for HSB.

I agree, why the Grass Carp? I don't recommend stocking them unless you have an underwater weed problem and don't want to manage the problem weeds with herbicides. If there aren't enough weeds in the pond now, they will muddy the water rooting around trying to find something, anything to eat and then trying to get underwater weeds established will be very difficult. Where in Central Indiana? We are about 30 miles S of South Bend.

Do you have spawning habitat in the pond for the different species of fish?

I live in Whitestown, about 30 minutes north of Indianapolis.

Might wait on the grass carp then and see if I have a problem. Was just told to get a head start on the grass as most ponds in our area do have a problem due to run off from farm land; i.e. high phosphate.

I have alot of small and large size structures in the breeding area.
LINK BELOW
https://www.facebook.com/100003043124971/videos/418978183856392/

Size of fish (bass) planning to stock?
I see the group you posted on, I'm on there as well, you have to be very careful of using the info you get there-or anywhere for that matter. We can give you some very sound advice here if you share your goals/intensions.

Snipe,

Sorry, missed your post.

I have not decided on size yet. I guess it would depend on what is available at the time, and the cost.
Goals are to have a good LMB and HSB fishing pond. Don't want catfish or anything else.

Would it be a concern to add the HSB a year after the LMB? Wouldn't they just be food for the LMB, ofcourse depending on the size of the HSB?

bstone - the advice here is not biased nor trying to sell you anything. Advice here comes from very knowledgeable and experienced pond owners and professional pond managers. When you provide a definitive goal for the fishery, we can then provide information and options for you to make some wise and important decisions.to achieve your goals. Pond management is not just about adding the right fish. Most importantly the long term quality of the fishery is about wise and proper management of the fish that were stocked. Important topics are: 1. food chain mgmt, 2, water quality aka Happy Water, 3, the proper amount of managed habitat, and 4, the correct harvest to keep the fish growing well at the correct balance of numbers comprising the carrying capacity and standing crop.

Note- You have good diversity of structures. However I think a lot of the habitat you installed tended to be IMO too spread out - separate units. Good habitat in my concept is more grouped together similar to natural large areas of weed beds or shorelines of fallen wood - trees. Placement of your structure is more focused on fish attractors as separate structures rather than groupings or cities of connected structures together that imitate refuge areas such as weed beds to better improve production and increase standing crop while also attracting fish. Weed beds are in most cases the best overall productive habitats in lakes.

I appreciate the comments, thank you!
I might be able to still move some of the structure in the spawning area, as your comments make sense.
I appreciate the advice.

Can you define good in more detail? It is rather vague and everyone has a different understanding of good.

The bigger the fish the better, I would rather catch a few large bass then catch a bunch of small bass all day. What every HSB I pull out I would replace, but the LMB I plan on pulling out 40-60 lbs per year after two to three years from being stocked.

See ladder stocking of HSB into existing LMB population.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=347977&page=1

Assume you saw the mortality rates for stocking into a LMB pond.

Here is the data and the lost long Bruce/George HSB thread with ladder stocking.


Bruce :

I'd estimate risk of predation from largemouth as follows:

5 inch wiper--80% over one year in presence of LMB
6 inch wiper--65% over one year in presence of LMB
7 inch wiper--45% over one year in presence of LMB
8 inch wiper--15% over one year in presence of LMB
9 inch wiper--negligible mortality.


Your loss rates would IMO be much lower if all you have is larger adult HSB.

Great Information, thank you!

Just got the bluegill and redear delivered today.
A few questions:

Water is 55F

How long before the BG and RE start eating pellets?

Should I start with just hand throwing some 2x a day by my 2 Texas Feeders, then once they start taking the food then start up the auto feeders?

I am starting out with Optimal #3, then going to Optimal #4, then to BG Jr once they get bigger.

Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.

Ladder stocking HSB into existing LMB population. For the percent survival of HSB into LMB, all those interested we have to remember that if HSB are stocked one year later the LMB will only be 8"-12" long and they are still focused on eating minnows, 1.5"-2" BG. HSB as 4"-6 " stockers will IMO have higher survival rates. This assumes the stockers are healthy and properly handled. Historically I have had trouble getting good HSB survival of stockers due to HSB do not are not good at tolerating holding, hauling and transport. IMO I would buy a several extra to account for various causes of loss. You can always remove excess HSB when they get to 14"-16" as these are the best sizes for eating. Less red meat along the skin side of the fillet.

Feeding new BG-RES. Yes I would hand feed once or twice a day until you see them eating pellets. If they are small 2"-3" it will take several days to a week or more for them to find the feeding area. Fish that small tend to initially feed on invertebrates and large plankton. I think it is initially a good idea to use a long stick or pole to do a little water splashing in the area where you feed. If you have a dock then bang lightly on the dock. This alerts the fish as to activity and does a fair job of attracting them to the area. Minnows will show up first to the pellet feeding. They attract other fish. A good way to start feeding pellets is to get or make a feeding ring. A quick ring is a hula-hoop anchored with a cord tied to a brick and works to keep the feed from blowing to shore. Ring can be made from PVC pipe or black poly water line. For my feeding rings I install a wind baffle around the inside of the ring to keep more pellets inside the ring on windy days and fish splashing. .

+1. I agree.

A 5in HSB weighs 7.5% of a 12" LMB. Very unlikely to be consumed any 12" LMB. A 4" weighs 3.5% of a 12" LMB. Though it is conceivably twice as easy to consume than a 5" it still lies more than 2 standard deviations away from the most common proportion at 0.88% which is presumably the most energetically favorable. These sizes should have good survival with Bill's timing and LMB limited to 12" in length.

Local fishery that I am using sells the HSB at 4-6". They also have the LMB in 4-6". So the plan would be to get 100 LMB and 60 HSB in the same 4-6" range late next year.

Ask the hatchery if they usually have that size LMB available in the Fall. Fish aren't like canned goods. Once they are sold, they might not be available for a year.

ok, I will thxs.

HSB availability late in the year are sometimes or often sold out , thus not HSB are available in Fall. Verify with the fish farm for Fall your planned delivery of HSB. You might have to adjust timing of the stockings.

Just to drive that point home, I called a hatchery in Arkansas today for 2.5"-3.5" RES. They are already sold out and all that is left is 1":-2.25" They won't have any 2.5"-3.5" until July at the earliest.

So I got the bluegill and redear delivered a few weeks ago. I now have a blue heron that has taken up residence at my pond. He is getting the very few dead fish, and maybe a few of the ones I see close the edge that are about to die. Again, very few fish that have died or look sick. My question is should I be concerned about the healthy fish? Can the blue heron get the healthy fish? Banks are 3:1 down to 12 feet deep. I do have a spawning area that is 3 feet deep but has a lot of fish structures for hiding. Thought about getting a decoy, anyone have success with one? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

Yes, the Blue Heron can get the healthy fish. I have had them stab Rainbow Trout that were 14" long and Largemouth Bass that were 12"-14" in length also. I have never seen one eat a dead fish. If you get a decoy, get a swan decoy.

Snipe think I know where you are talking about! holly crap there is so much misinformation and people who act like they know.....it is awful. At least most people on here are basing their advice on science, research, and experience or they generally just keep quiet and LEARN.

"I have never seen one eat a dead fish."

Years ago, at my main pond, a Great Blue Heron was standing on the shore. We kept getting closer and closer to it in my boat. We were about 15' away, and it still hadn't left, so I threw a dead golden shiner to it, and it ate it.

I wouldn’t recommend that you or anyone else break the law and kill the heron. But, I might just………..

Herons will destroy a pond and eat your fish, I have had them kill bass and not even eat them just kill them. Destructive birds and they sure are not endangered like vultures they are way to many of them. .17 hmr works nice and quite

Seen a few fish like this. It's not a sore or a wound. It's a blob of slime with sediment in it. Any ideas? Cold water fungus?

Generally, that indicates some kind of stress on the fish. Causes of stress can be all kinds of things like poor water quality, overcrowding, etc.

It doesn't hurt to throw a few boxes of kosher salt into the pond as a mild boost to fish health.

New fish as of 2 weeks, and water is below 50. Would be my guess as to the reason for stress. But only seen a few fish like this. Water temps are increasing. So, hopefully that helps.

Saprolegnia or other fungus form. Pretty typical in stressed fish, BG very often at 50 degs.
One thing I notice right away is the size of eye on BG, it's very large indicating slow growth/lack of food. (before you got them).

Interesting! Is that something that will go away with proper food?

Once a fish has missed growth opportunity, it will never reach true growth potential. It can still grow once food is available, but not to the sizes it would have if proper forage was available from day 1.

bstone,

Don't worry too much about lost potential and focus your energy on other things. The biggest loss is the length increment of the age. Hatchery fingerlings in the 1-3 sizes are often low RW and even shorter than they would have otherwise been if stocked in a fresh farm pond at 2 months of age. In a hatchery pond, within 45 to 60 days the growth of the new hatch slows dramatically. They are between 1" and 2" at that time. Most people want to buy 1"-3" fingerlings for stocking so they don't try to grow them fast but rather maintain them so they grow slowly. This is the way of industry by and large. Purchasing last years crop for stocking in March kind of ensures you will be buying fish with lost potential.

Buying fish when hatcheries have new crop at 1"-2" in the field will not guarantee that you will get new crop fingerlings. I wish I could say it would. So you will just work with what you have. There is a lot of years ahead of them and so how you take care of them from here will determine their growth path from here. You can still grow them remarkably. Your stocking plan suggests an emphasis for LMB. This is probably where you need to be focused on getting very good fingerlings (young and long). I say young and long because there is going to be a lot of forage in your pond that is too big for new crop 2" LMB to eat. Some of the BG could eat them. So if buying advanced fingerlings there is room for older fingerlings to work their way into your order. As much as possible, you want length that is appropriate for the age of the fingerling.

No reason to buy hatch at 1-2".
i pull my fry and stock out in 3 days post-hatch in heavily fertilized ponds to maximize growth rates. At day 35 I pull and put in feed training tanks. The top fish achieve near twice the growth of the other half and after feed training, these go back outside in grow outs full of forage AND supplemental feeding.
I won't sell 2-3" fish to stock, doesn't make sense and is BAD business.
My fish at 2-3" are FAR from low RW, in fact they are absolute pigs and again, long, skinny fish are not healthy, they have missed something from day 1 and I'm not sure where you get this notion.
I've tried and tried to keep an open mind here, but I'm about to just quit posting because this is not good advice given above and apparently my personal experience is just crap.
Done for now..

Snipe,

I have no doubts that your fish are of the highest quality that have exhibit good growth and RW. But the fact remains that you are different from most supplier in that you focus on doing just that. But most don't. The problem is that you can't supply everyone. I wish that you could. A lot of folks are going to get less than optimum fingerlings. I didn't like the condition of the fingerlings either ,... AND ... I don't understand why the seller wouldn't tell him to wait until temps were warmer to stock them.

As factual as your comments were, there is nothing he can do about other than take care of what he has. No fish reaches it potential. Ketona Lake, which produced the world record, to fish >4 lbs and numerous >2 lbs without feeding, contained ordinary bluegill. At least according to the Alabama Wildlife folks. They could not get them to grow better than their own selected strains when tested in farm ponds. They had the potential for the pinnacle of greatness, but only in Ketona Lake.

I just don't want the OP to feel discouraged. In the end, he will have a great pond where the fish reach the potentials the environment of his pond (and his management) will allow. What will determine this mostly will be populations and available foods.

I often remind myself to not stick one of my southern toes too deep in northern pond water when a regional expert is available.

Especially where stocking BG is concerned. BG up north and in the south have different recommended stocking structures and outcomes.

I'm still have issues with getting bluegill and the redear to eat the pellets. I feed once per day for 1 second at 1930 at two feeders on either ends of the pond. I get a few BG and RE, but mainly FHM. Nothing like the 4000 BG and 1000 RE I put in the pond a few months ago. But, I did catch a BG on the overflow and he was big and fat! I decided to try and catch a few fish, I quickly caught a BG and he was also big and fat. My guess is that I have alot, and I mean alot of small FHM in the pond from the 100 lbs I added last year. They must be getting their fill of small FHM is my guess.

That's great news B! Did you seem to have much loss from the fish after stocking or did the infections seem to clear up?

What food are you pushing through the feeder?

Are you using a feeding ring with the feeders?

I scanned back to one of your previous posts and it looks like you were going to start off with Optimal #3 and then switch to Optimal #4. Here's some info on the starters from the Optimal website...

With a gradual sinking pellet, the entire water column can be targeted, enabling the weaker fish to get the appropriate nutrients they need and increasing survivability across the population.

If you are still using the Starter #? from Optimal your fish may be eating it below the surface. Switching to a floating JR or BG will likely bring them to the surface.

Out of the 4000 BG and 1000 RE I only found maybe 15 - 20 dead fish since the day they were added to the pond. They all have seemed to survive the infection. Have not seen any with the white spots.

I am feeding Optimal, Mark has been great giving me suggestions on feeding. I have #3, #4, Jr, and GB sizes. I bought an entire pallet due to the cost savings.

I have not tried the feeding ring yet, so many other projects are taking up my time. Staining the dock, getting the contractor to do a final grade so I can get seed down. And trying to finish up my shooting range.

I am still using up the #3, and #4. The #4 sinks, and I see GB below the water zipping around after them. I just recently started to add some Jr to the mix.

I had a couple of posts recommending the use of a feeding ring before I got mine in. About a week or two after getting it in I did see some changes in how the fish related to the area we feed from. TH feeders have a great throw pattern and our pond is subject to wind which in turn blows the food whichever direction the wind happens to blow that day.

What we started to see after putting the feeding ring out there was that the fish seem to be holding in area during the day when we aren't feeding. If I am on site and throw some in by hand at the ring....they snatch it right up. I would never have guessed that a 3/4" pvc tube head in place by a couple of bricks on a string would have made such an impact.

Next step for us will be to feed mid-day for sec or two to see if we can get them to take it on a regular basis.

For us, absolutely worth the 30mins to make the ring and set it as we are feeding only floating food at this point. Sinking food probably wouldn't have the same drift problem we experience. Wife even complimented me on the "good idea" which I responded with 100% cudos to the guys on the forum.

Good to hear you didn't have much loss on the fish. Sounds like you are well on your way to being ready for the LMB and HSB that you wanted to put in.

I've never tried to use a feed ring, so no input there.

I have observed that heavily feed trained adult Bluegill actually came off of feed when transplanted into a new body of water that was polluted with fathead minnows of all sizes. I had moved (85) of these Bluegill over, and they were almost off of feed 100% to the point where you didn't see the fish anymore, and we thought we had a total fish kill. They were in there though.

Interesting! I will give it a try, as you said its easy to make...

Good input, sounds like the FHM are what are feeding my BG and RE.

Back in Late Summer of 2023 I added:
100 lbs Fathead Minnows
100 lbs Golden Shiners

And then stocked in mid March 2024:
3000 Bluegill 2"- 3"
1000 Bluegill 3"- 4"
1000 Redear 2"- 3"

I have been feeding 2x a day on two separate feeders with Optimal Fish Food.
Today I decided to go fishing to see how the BG and RE are doing after 3-1/2 months.
Very pleased with what I caught, all big fat and healthy!
And millions of FHM...

I think picture is a BG?

Yes those are Bluegill. The 2nd pic seems that the fish might have a mark on it's back from a Great Blue Heron. First fish might have a grub right in front of it's tail, but it's hard to tell from that first picture.

What are the general opinions on snapping tuetles? I have two medium size snapping tuetles. I have read they really are not a problem, will not eat healthy fish. Will eat sick/dead fish and fish eggs? Thxs

Lusk once said that anytime a turtle catches a fish; the fish deserved it.

I agree with DDavidson and Lusk, snapping turtles mostly eat sick, weak dying and dead fish. I have had two large ones in my pond for 25 years. I think smaller one is male and big one is female. I have seen them layered together. I see not young snappers in the pond. Mine must be territorial. Fish steal pellets from the nose of the turtles and turtles don't try and eat the stealer fish. The turtles do eat the dead animals such as dead birds, dead muskrats and dead fish in the pond and the dead food does not have to be freshly dead. Apparently 2 day old dead fish are just as savory.

I trapped snapping turtles for years; snappers will eat absolutely everything they can catch or find. I used to put them in a big horse trough to clean them out for a week before butchering, they would puke up fresh baby ducks/fresh fish/muskrat feet/duck feet/ other smaller turtles. I myself don't like or want them in a pond at all and remove them with prejudice.
And in a pond that people swim in I would never want any.

Those baby ducks had it coming.

Those baby ducks F.A.F.O.

Went fishing today to see how the BG and RE are doing! Also, FHM are in the millions, its crazy... I have yet to catch or see a Golden Shiner, but I did see one on the bank that a bird caught awhile back. They also seem to be getting big and are healthy.

Anyway, here a re few pictures of fish I caught today. I noticed a lot of red marks. Please take a look and let me know what you think?
The BG and RE are FAT, like really obese.. hahaha. I feed 3x a day..

Thank you!

The red spots look like fish lice.

An update on the pond progress:

The FHM and GSH are plentiful! Schools and schools of FHM and GSH at various sizes.

The BG and RE are getting very big and fat, the ones I catch are all healthy!

Everything is now eating pellets. So, feeding 3x a day has added to the growth.

Last week I had 120 3-4" LMB and 80 3-4" HSB delivered. I have only lost 2 or 3 LMB but have lost at least 21 HSB so far. Everyday I see 4 to 6 HSB washed up on the shore, no signs of injury.

So, that leaves me with around 60 HSB so far. I assume this would still be a good stocking amount? I have an opportunity to get more 3-4" HSB within the next 2 days if I want them. Thoughts?

Did you take enough time to acclimate the HSB before letting them loose in the pond?

I would wait on getting more HSB until you see how much more mortality you have with them, and if possible, the cause of the excessive morts.

Glad to hear your forage fish are doing well!

Sorry to hear about your HSB mortalities. If you have observed 21 morts, your actual number is almost certainly a little higher than that.

I would sure like to know the possible causes of the observed deaths before trying again. Poor transport conditions, failure to acclimate to pond temperature correctly, etc.

We have lots of experts on the forum for fish handling and transport. Perhaps start a new thread and list as much information about the stocking process and conditions in your pond as possible?

I was typing while Sunil was typing.

Clearly, one of us is much faster!

The HSB were not acclimated, Just put in the pond as with the LMB. I was trusting the fishery on that one, bad decision on my part.

What is a good stocking number for HSB in my pond knowing the current stock rate of everything else.

I have read they are a schooling fish and do better with a large school. I have read all kinds of recommended stocking rates for HSB, just curious to actual experience.

If you end up with 20-30 per acre, I think that's a decent number to allow growth of the HSB, and not have too many of them. They are feed hogs and will take up biomass in the pond. And while the HSB don't reproduce, your LMB will most likely start spawning in the Summer of 2025.

I'd wait and see on the HSB.

HSB do school sometimes, but not all the time.

HSB are very touchy about stocking procedure. When I pick them up from the hatchery they knock them out with tranquilizer before they move them to my transport tanks.

I would think your stocking rate of the HSB is still kind of high after the mortality, 20 / acre should be sufficient IMO. They grow really fast and eat lots of pellets.
Since they do not reproduce in ponds I would wait a few years before stocking more so you have a couple different size classes.

Years ago, my fish supplier would 'knock-out' the HSB with clove oil before stocking them into the pond. The 'sleeping' HSB would lay on the bottom until they woke up and slowly swam away.

These days, when I go and get HSB to bring to my pond, I don't use any clove oil. I just take a lot of time to ensure that the water temps are equal, and they they are gradually introduced to the pond water by slowly adding pond water to the transport water until you'd have mostly pond water.

I also use some kosher salt to help them along.

Thanks for all the feedback! I will not add anymore HSB and wait to see my final count. I can always add more in the spring if so desired. I will plan on a 20/30 per acre HSB stocking rate.

As you know now HSB are TRICKY to transport and stock. Another very important factor is the method the fish farm held them and how LONG they held them in their tanks before one buys them. Often these fish are not even fed to keep manure to a minimum and water quality good. If the buyer could see how many dead fish are removed from the Farm's Retailer holding tanks each morning the buyer would probably not be a buyer. Been there seen / experienced that.

HSB are often held and transported in pretty strong salt water to fend off bacterial infection. Changing them from strong salt to complete freshwater has to be an immediate shock. Generally the smaller the HSB are, the more sensitive they are to transport, holding and restocking. IMO 6"-8" or 8"-10 are the best sizes to buy as they are more tolerant of stressors. If one stocks 3"-5" HSB in an existing pond with LMB,,, the LMB eat all weak, struggling, dying fish to be never seen again. IMO you will be lucky to have 20 of the 80 survive to Spring. Fall stocked fish are stressed fish and need a lengthy period of all summer to build a good body fat reserve condition to survive the long harsh winter and lack of food availability. Fall is not a good time to stock some species of fish. Lots of small fish die in winter due to lack of adequate body fat. Nature's way of eliminating the weakest ones.

It is remarkable the improvement of weight and condition of your BG stocked only 7 months ago growing from this in late March:




To this in 3 months:



And then on to this in a little over 4 months (8-2-24):



Just remarkable how fish will turn around and grow when conditions for growth are favorable.

I don't like to see open sites for infections to take hold on the fish. For the pond experts, is this anything he could/should do in response?


bstone, you mentioned feeding 2 times daily in June and have been feeding 3 times daily recently. Do you know how many bags you fed this year?

[/quote]bstone, you mentioned feeding 2 times daily in June and have been feeding 3 times daily recently. Do you know how many bags you fed this year?[/quote]

The BG and RES are huge and fat, bigger then my hand. Wish I had a updated picture.
The GSH are also huge and fat as they are eating the pellet food also.
And no signs of infections at all. I think they just needed to get acclimated and a healthy diet.

Of the pallet of Optimal I got (50 bags to a pallet) I probably used 25-30 bags this summer. I went heavy feeding to promote grow and health.
I plan on getting another pallet at the end of next summer.

As of now I have lost about 30 of the 80 I bought, I have not seen anymore dead in a day or so, so hopefully that is it with the initial loss. I added 3-4" HSB as this was the size of the LMB I was getting at the same time. Of the 120 LMB I have only seen 2 dead.
I didn't realize how sensitive the HSB are, thankfully they are cheap. My plan is to keep 40 - 60 stocked. So, if I loose anymore then that I will stock them in the spring at 6-8" as that would be about the size of the LMB at the time. I have a different fishery that stocks these, so will use them next if needed.
I appreciate the information. Thank you

Thank you for replying. I am very glad to see your BG respond like this to your feeding program. All is good!

Need a fish ID please. Walking around the frozen pond I found a bunch of these in the ice. Any idea what fish these are? Thxs
My guess is bluegill. Just crazy how many are in the ice.

Looks like Bluegill to me.

Were they all close to the same size??. Did you stock any fish this fall?

May be picture , but eye looks a little big ? BG , late season hatch , shortage of bloom to feed causing stress , then cold hit causing fatal stress ? Just a thought . I've found small fish frozen in ice , but never more than 2 at a time , in a barely 2 Acre pond.

Definitely a stunted fish in the picture.

BG that needs/needed more food.

bstone fed 1200 pounds of optimal this year. So it wasn't for lack of feeding that the YOY are in poor condition. This must be a case of what happens when YOY are just too plentiful and predators too few. That size of BG isn't finding enough food because there are no predators to thin them down ... yet that is.

Was bstone using a starter size feed?

I doubt that.


Sunil, I think the smallest size the OP used was 2.2mm. I use fish food powder for BG fry and FHM. I get that from a coffee grinder, and what's left in any of the fish food bags. 2.2 mm (Optimal #2) is what I use for 1.5" to 2" fingerlings, and 1/8" until the BG can easily swallow 1/4" pellets. In my hatchery pond, my HSB and 4" and above take the 1/4" pellets. Having said all that, I feed the smaller pellets if larger BG dominate the food. When I was really working hard to grow large BG, I fed 3/8" pellets 4 times a day. 6"-7" and below BG wouldn't compete with the larger 9"-11" BG for food. Now, I hand spread 1/8" around the dock so everyone gets a chance to eat. The feeder handles the larger BG, and the smaller BG get to eat also. My point is that for the best survival success, one needs to start feeding at the bottom, and match the correct food size with the growth of the BG.

bstone261, it's not uncommon for me to pick a few dead fish out of the hatchery pond and my big pond, and that's knowing some sink and are never seen. Water temp changes, lack of access to enough food, or other stresses do kill a few fry and fingerlings. If you're losing larger BG, then I would worry a tad.

I don't remember if you already stocked LMB and HSB, but remember that if overstocked, they both hammer the bottom of the fish chain and can affect the long term forage results.

I'm just happy that it is all working out as planned by bstone. His BG responded to feeding and they grew to excellent individual weights reaching the potential the environmental conditions allowed. They don't look anything like the originals ... they look none the worse for their original condition. To cap things off there were prodigious quantities of YOY produced. So much so that growth slowed when they reached the limiting standing weight leading to the condition you guys are remarking about. Just can't see a negative here. Wasn't that the plan? To have a large population of small slow growing forage that can feed a limited number of LMB (when he stocks them .... they are not there yet) for a few years? Now that he has succeeded in that, why is he being criticized for the success? There are several posts complaining about poor condition ... but only one remarking about how good the condition his adult BG are in now.

Next year, when he stocks LMB according to the plan he stated in the original post I do fully expect them to thin down the bank of forage he built if they are stocked appropriately sized, and I do expect that this years crop of BG will resume growth and reflect better condition after the introduction of predators. I can't think of any good reason to grow them too fast. If they could grow only as fast as to remain at optimum lengths for his growing LMB ... that would be ideal.

bstone is following a recipe someone advised him on. The questions I have are:

What is the benefit of delaying introduction of the LMB to early summer next year over say this past autumn?

With the large numbers of YOY standing, how likely is it that the BG will recruit much forage next spring?

Would the spring recruitment of YOY be better if some of this year's crop of YOY were thinned down?

Is next summer better in an effort to delay LMB reproduction by an additional year?

What size and how many LMB should bstone stock next year?

At no point did I tell bstone261 what to do and what not to do. I did share results of 25 years on the water forage/predator relationship gotcha's on my 11 acre pond, and 13 years of various incredible successes and oopsie failures in my hatchery pond.

As George Glazener told me many times, "I don't give advice, I share experience", and that's what I did.

Yes, of course. My impression is that bstone was advised before posting the initial post. Far as I can tell, he has followed the initial plan without deviating from it.

Guys, that last fish picture was of the first hatched BG from original BG from the pond. It was a late spawn. Lots and lots of baby BG. That was also taken in winter, so it will look skinny and being gen2 of original BG population. All is good! Water temp is above 50F, and fish are already eating pellets. Totally bummed that Optimal closed!

Update: pond is doing good. Started up the fish feeders, adjusting as the temperature increases and more fish become active. The bass and hybrid stripers were added last fall, as far as I can tell they are doing well. They have taken to pellets. I am amazed how many fathead minnows i still have. Getting them at the golden shiners almost 18 months to get established has really helped keep the numbers up. Hopefully they will continue to stay at a strong population. Bluegill and Redears are also doing well, getting really big and fat!
Did have a huge rain fall that added alot of turbidity to the water, but back to normal levels
I looked into aluminum sulfate but super expensive for my size pond. Going to treat the catails soon as they are getting overpopulated again.
Will update with pics sometime soon.

Super glad, all is going well for you now. Looking forward to your pictures , soon.

Quick update.

Added a few more hybrid striped bass to make up for the ones I lost. So total HSB should be around 40-50.
Crazy how many FHM I have, the bass and bluegill are fat but the FHM population is very very strong. I see schools of FHM everywhere, young and old.
The Golden Shinner population is also very strong, I suspect the large ones are just not getting eaten yet. So they are keeping the shinners populated.

Caught my fish bass out of the pond! See attached picture. Keep in mind the bass where added late fall and where only 4-6". So growth is great for about 8 months. Have not got a stripper yet.

The bluegill are just massive and fat!! Crazy.

I still feed 3x a day with what I have left from my pallet of Optimal.

Are you teaching those strippers to pole dance too?

IMO you will have lots of minnows/shiners until the first hatch of LMB are 8"-10". Then expect to have noticable losses of minnows shiners. .