Pond Boss Forums FISH & FISHING Sunfish-Including Largemouth and Smallmouth Bass SMB/ YP / WE Culling

This is my 1st attempt to start a thread . Over a year of reading, haven't seen question posed.
Pond in question, started off with a mistake, Stocking #1 Sept 2020 stocked 20#'s FHM, 100 CC, 100 BCP, 4 GC , Fish Truck. But my heart was on WE and
SMB, so 2nd stocking , 10 hr drive to NE Mo. Oct 15 of 2020 , 10 hrs home with 100 4-6" YP, 400 2" YP, 30#'s GSH, 30#'s FHM .
Then 3rd stocking April 2021 , 10 hrs to NE Mo. and 10 hrs home with 250 4-6" YP, 50#'s FHM, 40#'s GSH , 100 6-8" WE, 75 2-4"
SMB . Then 4th Stocking , May of 2021, serious infection of snails, pull out 20 #'s of FA, 20-40 snails mixed in, 400 2" RES, lo and behold to discover, 2 years later, I may have gotten 200 ? RES, but balance was BG and GSF, snails are gone , GSF are not.
Winter of 2021 was a pond covered in Ducks, spring of Cormorants , so April 2022 100 2-4" SMB 150 WE . Pond is stocked.
Pond is 2 Acres Surface, 3 Water Wells to maintain level if necessary, very little water under 6' , 4' and under is lined with pond liner and heavily graveled with seams of 6-8" rock 3' feet high 4-5' wide, from dam , out 30' . Water 9'-12' large areas, water over 15' common, deepest to 24' at normal pool .
Pond is pay to fish, SMB 5-6",9-10", and 13-16". WE 13-16". YP 6"-12"+. BG, all sizes lots of fat 9-10". GSF 2"-8", RES to 9". CC 3-4#
Tilapia stocked each summer, start 3", Harvested 12-14" , RBT each winter for a winter attraction.
Trying to remove CC, Customers can keep all they catch.
BCP haven't spawned big as yet, catch a few, nice size.
Sorry so long , so far. Now questions.

1) repeatedly I've seen recommendations for LMB , keep all 14" and less . SMB ? presently C&R, but with recruitment , from size
classes, any direction from anyone ? I feel that I need some weeded out ? Customers love them, many have never seen them, most
have caught huge LMB, but SMB are hard to come by without a long drive. Would like some 3#'s+ in next 2? yrs.
2) WE , doubt any recruitment, customers love catching them , recommendations ? Believe I can replace at only 4 hrs travel now
instead of 10 hrs.. thoughts ? Goal ? 3-4 #'s next yr or 2 ?
3) YP, I'm placing traps to see #'s , catch #'s have been excellent this spring , their thick, pond is full of GSH from 1.5"-9.5", seeing TP
everywhere, females with fry going in and out of their mouths, tons of SF @ thumbnail size. Haven't seen little YP yet, reason for trap.
YP have been C&R so far, customers enjoy catching them, because of novelty in W Okla. Look forward to allowing some keepers,
sizes, limits, thoughts ?
4) Would like to also grow some exceptional BG since I'm stuck with them , ? Slot limit ? reasonable ?
We have second pond below this one, another 2 acres, in same canyon, GSF are already there, water over spillway from 1st pond,
it also will be pay to fish.
Stocking was haphazard and zero knowledge, wish I had found PBF, much , much sooner, open to everyones thoughts. Side note,
we also have in conjunction with the 2 ponds a small 12 site RV Park. A Weekend Fish Camp.
Thank you in advance , I may never make any money at this, but the laughter and smiles of both adults and children catching fish,
catching fish they've never seen is wonderful . Any help growing bigger, more colorful , maximum numbers is appreciated.
Sorry for rambling, poor grammar. Give me your questions to clarify. Hope goals are evident in reading.

I'm not qualified to suggest harvest numbers for other species, but since your predators are SMB, WE, and (perhaps) some very large YP, I think you need to be very aggressive wrt BG removal. Like taking out EVERY BG caught below 8"-9", and doing your best to remove every BG above that limit that isn't clearly Male. I realize the latter will be hard or impossible on a pay fishing pond. And getting people to throw little BG on the bank can be difficult as well.

I believe for other species, harvest numbers/slot limits will probably have to be adjusted as time goes by based on the (apparent) population & size structure of each species.

Whew, FA that is going to be a very complicated project. With that many species you have made a complicated job (pond management) MUCH more complicated!

OTOH, how awesome is it to see kids catch their first fish ever, or first big fish ever.

Do the anglers have to show/report to you everything they catch? If so, then you do have one advantage in that you are constantly sampling your fish populations.

I am not an expert, so cannot give you any good specific advice. However, perhaps you should keep very comprehensive records. When you have fish trends going the wrong way, try to identify the problem and change the pond management. When fish trends are favorable, keep doing more of that.

Do you have the ability to add any smaller forage ponds or grow-out ponds? If so, I think that would give you a lot of operational flexibility and perhaps save you considerable stocking money over the long term and/or grow fish faster with large inputs of optimally sized forage?

Good luck on your pond evolution!

There are a couple of correct answers to this question, but having direction in your goals is needed to make an assessment of what the right answer is.
First-off, a good indicator is relative weight of fish caught-of any size-which will tell you if there is a gap or lack of available forage for that size of fish. Thing is, that forage size will have an affect on other predator species of different sizes, so it's a moving target.
The one thing that is nearly impossible is having large numbers of large fish in every species. To get "some" large fish of any one species, you need large numbers of small fish of other species.
I don't think it's over simplifying by saying the lean fish (Low RW) are key to what needs to be changed.
I think to best answer your question, there is no specific time frame that X fish should be removed, it's a measurement of length vs weight that will tell the story and this takes accurate records with accurate equipment to make determinations which is time consuming but doable for anyone who's willing to follow proper recommendations.
With a bit of time you will catch on to having some insight into what you should expect by making each change, which ALWAYS affects 3-4 other things but takes some time to see the results.
Rule #1., Mother nature will continue throwing unexpected curveballs your way-always expect the unexpected so don't be surprised. That's why there are general recommendations and not hard-fast rules.

thank you, all for thoughts, I'll be digesting them and applying to my situation. Yes, the customers look at you , like your crazy,
when you ask that all greenies go on the bank. Much less Bluegill. Best reporting I've found is asking for pictures for Facebook
page. That's how I get them to show me their catch for the day. Works every time. God bless You and Yours.

You could slightly jack up rates, then offer a discount back to normal price if they record and report their catches/sizes. Incentive (as if helping you manage where they like to fish isn't enough) for them, "free" info for you!

Just curious....are you doing any feeding?

Regarding those who pay to come fish, is it you who gives them an 'orientation' before they fish? I'm asking about how viable it is to harness their activities towards your goals in the most effective way.

Also, what do you feel the role of the tilapia is in this pond?

Optimal BG and Jr. Never had YP come to the Tractor Store feed, 1st on BG, today 5 YP since adding Jr.
I do 98% of Orientation , How to handle fish, Barbless hooks, Bait that's allowed, Limits. Most prefer C,P,&R
Toss up. Algae / Forage , mainly the Tilapia fry and fingerlings for YP, and smaller SMB. Original stockings of YP was for
forage for WE and SMB.