Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Sunfish

I have a 2.5 acre newly constructed pond that is a little more than half full. I was about to stock it—with the end goal of having cnb and lmb. We were told that we needed to check for sunfish before stocking. We seined the pond quickly and found sunfish-which we believe to be longear. My question is are these as problematic as green sunfish? Should I eradicate? Or stock over the existing population.

Even though you found longear sunfish, that doesn't mean you have found EVERY species that exists in your pond.

Will your pond be connected to other bodies of water that contain fish during flooding events, or will you have 100% control over the water entering the pond?

Being in Louisiana, will this pond have plenty of water available?

I ask these questions, because it is much more difficult to manage a large pond with multiple undesirable species that are working against your pond goals.

I am NOT an expert, but have read lots of the discussions on Pond Boss on very similar situations.

The consensus is usually, that it will cost you much less time and money to start from scratch to achieve your final pond goals.

If you believe you will have excess water over the course of the year, then your best option might be to drain/pump the pond as low as possible. If you can then perform a "perfect" survey, and determine you only have fish you desire, then start your stocking plans.

However, I (non-expert) think you will probably be happier five years from now if you drain, and then rotenone (fish kill) your pond and start from zero.

As soon as you get some water, you can start your fathead minnow forage. You might then be able to add your CNBG this fall - and nothing will eat their fry on their first spawning! The pond might then be perfect (and nearly full) to add LMB next spring.

Hopefully, an actual expert will drop in with some more comprehensive advice.

Good luck on your pond project. A 2.5 acre pond in LA sounds like a dream!

I would want to know how they got in there if it is a new pond. If you get rid of them they will probably come back. Is there another pond above it?

I'd like to hear more about the specific timeline of the pond, and as suggested, more talk about how these other fish got into the pond

I think you have a solution looking for a problem. I know nothing about longear sunfish but I’ve never heard of them being a problem.

But, I also like green sunfish. They only spawn annually so can’t really cause problems. And, they out fight a pansy ass bluegill every time.

The pond is on a flat pasture no water flows into it. Its been holding a a couple ft of water in a deep area in one corner for a little over 2 yrs while being excavated. Finished about 6 mo ago. Water is really muddy but has recently started to clear. Im in central louisiana its filled fairly quick but if i do have to drain i will be putting a well to assist with filling. Really trying to avoid that if possible. Im really not sure how so many of them got in there so fast. My concern is even if i do eradicate will they eventually hybridize everything anyway being there are so many in a short time with no water flowing in

How do you think the fish are getting in there?

Lots of ponds near me my guess is that wildlife maybe birds can migrate the fish from one pond to the next but i really dont know

Any chance some family or friends "helpfully" bucket stocked the longears into your pond?

Did you pump any water from a creek or neighboring pond? Fish fry can survive a trip through many types of pumps.

Heck, did your dirt contractor suck up pond/stream water into the water truck that he used to wet your clay lifts prior to compaction? If you had a puddle at that time in your deepest hole, then that could have introduced a few fry.


Pond Boss Question: Do birds and other wildlife transfer fish between bodies of water?

"Pond Boss Question: Do birds and other wildlife transfer fish between bodies of water?"

Some say yes, others say no.

So the definitive answer is, "it depends". I couldn't resist, lol.
Them little suckers, green sunfish, seem to find their way into just about every body of water, sometimes about the only explanation would be birds or ducks transferring them, but I have no idea whether that's even possible.
had tons of them almost immediately in my new pond, but then I have another pond or two in the watershed above mine so thats not as hard to figure out, because I also had LMB in my pond before I stocked it, not very many however.

I have never seen wildlife transfer fish or eggs that survived to another BOW. I HAVE seen BG living in a footprint in a pasture that held water after a flood, and have seen GSF swimming in barely 1" of water that was flowing out of a pond into a ditch. The GSF were swimming upstream towards the pond.


To the OP. Call someone to Rotenone the pond. You don't have to drain it that way. Then in 2 weeks put some FHM in a minnow bucket and put them in the pond. If they are alive in 24 hours you can stock the fish. You can also neutralize the Rotenone after using it with PP (Potassium permanganate).I would wait 48 hours before neutralizing it if you decide to go that route.

Thanks Sunil!

You have certainly solved that age-old conundrum!

esshup,

To interpret your "transfer" answer - do you believe that the most likely vector (when fish are inexplicably present in a pond) is fish traveling upstream through surface flows? [Obviously, introduction from other bodies of water in the upstream direction should NOT be surprising if water flows from those bodies can reach the subject pond during flood events.]

It appears (in your experience) that fish can navigate surface water flows shallower than their dorsal fin.

Likewise, I assume they could also work their way up an inclined pond outlet if the downstream end was in a pool (rather than air-gapped 3' above the stilling pool). After all, they can navigate fish ladders.

Brandon,

I apologize for taking your post off topic!

Back to your main question: I would listen to esshup's advice in your thread. He is a pond management professional that comments on Pond Boss. (Fortunately, we have a fair number of those!)

Pond has zero flow from any ouside water there is a berm about 2ft all the way around also im about as positive as can be no bucket stocking this is in my back yard on 6 acres fenced. They were id’d as green sunfish. I will probably lean toward rotenone solution its only about half full so hopefully will not take that much. Thanks for the info great help

Brandon
Are greenies that bad? I don’t have any but have caught them elsewhere. Like Dave says he likes them for catching. Seems like they won’t be that big of a problem especially if you got LMB in there. I have a mix of bg and everything else and it’s not been a problem in my puddle.(even got carp and bullheads)

Im not real sure if they are that bad but im being told by the fish hatchery that they will hybridize the BG i plan on feeding and doing anything i can to try and grow the biggest BG possible seems like fixing it now will be much easier than later

I have caught greenies that are well over a pound. Not sure they cross that much but a bg with a bigger mouth would be easier to hook. I realize they are looked down on by many folks cause they can compete with LMB for groceries but may help keep the numbers of LMB where they don’t stunt. I like diversity in a pond but that’s just me.

After doing a little reading maybe best to rid of them…. I still like them

The GSF will hybridize with BG, and since pure strain GSF has been reported to get to 31 CM and 960 Grams, yes they will get big but not as big as pure strain BG (41 cm and 2.2 Kg) or CNBG.

I have seen where GSF in a pond have eaten all the offspring of the stocker fish because there were no predators for them in the pond. That pond was rotenoned and started over after someone bucket stocked two 14" LMB in the pond. I was amazed at the lack of species diversity. The GSF with their bigger mouths were able to consume all the fry that the RES, YP, FHM and GSH produced. Those GSF were reproducing at 3" in length. This particular pond was dug in a wet spot in the woods, and is a good 500 yds from any other water source. BUT the woods would seasonally flood.

The pond builder built up a 3' berm around the pond to prevent any surface water from getting into the pond.

The same pond owner has has someone bucket stock HBG and CC into other ponds that he has, and the closest house is over 1/2 mile away, with no roads or trails coming close to the ponds. Don't count out the determination of kids!!! I personally hand sorted ALL the fish that went into the pond where CC showed up, and the pond that had HBG show up had absolutely 0 trace of any GSF or any hybridization. Only RES were stocked in that pond along with GSH and YP, along with SMB a year later.

Rod, yes, GSF and other fish can navigate to other BOW's through very thin water. It's amazing. and they can swim up water that is flowing out of an outlet to a pond too, although other than salmon I have not personally seen fish jumping a gap between water sources to get from one to another. Google Walking Catfish. In Florida they can move from one BOW to another without water......

All fish seem to go upstream in a flood. I have a spring fed creek that originates about 300 yards from my fence line. The owner of that place tells me that he never stocked that creek. It’s loaded with BG and GSF.
It winds up in a public lake about 10 miles downstream after going through a couple of seasonal ponds. Some of those ponds are 5 to 10 acres with large, high, dams. The closest large one hasn’t been stocked in many years. BTW, most West Texas ponds can be seasonal and silted. No way a fish could come upstream from the public lake to my place.

Another neighbor has a 1/3 acre pond used only to water cattle. It has green sunfish that he didn’t stock. He has never stocked anything. It’s about 20 years old and fed only by runoff from his land.

BTW, don’t ever drink from a West Texas pond with cattle.