Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations 3 ponds planned - comments welcome

I m going to start first pond - close to an acre which is an extension of a one acre pond in my backyard. the existing pond is about 30 years old,about 12 feet deep. Just had Johonson Lake management do a survey. pond has had no manzgement in the past but is amazingly complete and balanced producing 5 lb bass with great regularity. As the spillway of this pond exits the NW side the land slopes down and enters a 3 acre field and drops into a creek.I am not a pond builder,at least not of this type but have built numerous ormental backyard type ponds.

I am recently retired and I guess I have some money to burn and time to kill so therefore the plans to build three ponds- the one above; a 2.5 acre and a 3.5 acre. these two on twenty acres that I am going to develop to sell. property is 20 minutes from downtown austin, texas.

So, i just want to put down my thoughts and see if there is any feed back to help prevent a train wreck- I plan to use a JD 260 skid steer loader equiped with a grouser 84" blade and steel tracks.

In my mind the process is to scrape the vegetation and top layer away and then begin excavation. This project will require a dam of about 150 feet long and about 8 foot tall at a 5 to 1 slope on the outside and a 1 to 2 on the inside. In building this dam, In my mind I make a core trench and then start piling up clay to make the dam- how and when should i start packing the clay- build the dam up 2 or three feet and then compact it with my tractor - rent a roller or what. this dam will necessiarly be 60 feet wide at the base and i guess 10 ft wide at the top?? I have considered renting a bulldozier but the rental places tell me that every piece of machinery in texas is leased out to road building projects - and $5,000.00 per month for a 150 hosrsepower machine??? I have watched guys build dams and compact it with a bull dozier and nothing else - i sort of realize that compacting this dam will be the most critical aspect of the project--- Any comments or suggestions will be appreciated - I really enjoy this site and the magazine- as we all do. thanks

seashores,

I'll offer some comments from a DIY pond builder...I'm not a pro, but a DIY pond builder. See last paragraph, where I recommend you NOT do the first pond yourself...only attempt after you know full well what you are getting into...this isn't at all like an ornamental pond. It is hard and dangerous work, not to be taken lightly.

1) First, make sure you understand what you are getting into...by my rough calculations you are looking at a minimum of 42000 cubic ft of dirt in the dam of your first pond. That's a lot of dirt. Estimate how much dirt you can move in a pass with the loader and calculate more accurately the amount of dirt required and measure the time for each pass...you can then get a rough estimate of the total time required.

2) You may very well run into rock and/or very hard clay to cut...will the loader do that job?

3) I doubt that the loader will pack the clay sufficiently to insure against leaks. Dozers can do that, but even then you must go very slowly, i.e. build up a few inches and pack before building again. It is very time consuming and if you are not prepared for that, then you might want to re-think. Also, make very sure you have adequate moisture in the clay to pack it...its very dry in Texas right now and not a good time to pack clay.

4) Go to the USDA site and download publication 590. Read it. It will tell you precisely how to plan out the dam and calculate the amount of dirt to be moved.

5) I don't know the capabilities of your loader, but doubt very seriously its ability to dig the core trench.

6) Always think safety. Operating equipment especially in a pond building situation is dangerous, even more so for the beginner. That inside slope may sound very harmless but it will look entirely different from your loader. It is easy to seriously hurt yourself, even kill yourself. I'm not trying to scare you, but there is a reason for professional pond builders...if it were easy, there wouldn't be the pros.

In summary, my advice to you is do your homework. Hire the first pond to be done by a professional. Watch carefully, even help with the construction, then and only then attempt to do it on your own...and make sure you have adequate equipment for the job, before ever turning the first dirt.

By way of p.s. you are wrong on the above!

There are three critical aspects: 1) good plan 2) good equipment and 3) surviving the experience with all your bodily parts in tact!

If your blade can push dirt, why not give it a try, I would try something like that if I had the equipment. 1) The topsoil you remove will be needed for the back of the dam. 2) If you hit large rocks or gravel, your project may be over. 3) Forget the 2/1 slope...too dangerous for a rookie. 4) Moist Clay packs very well on its own...the 1 acre pond could add a little water to the mix when needed. 5) and what I think is most important...if you have good clay, cut and mix it up a bit. Solid clay will crack in dry periods. White clay with dirt should produce a tan colored dam that somewhat glows at night. Be careful, there are near-death posts here that should remind you not to take shortcuts.

My excavator didn't own equipment that he/we/NRCS advisor thought would compact the core well, so he rented a big vibrating sheep's foot roller - kind of like a big asphalt roller with warts and the DTs.

The pond is about 300 yards from the house. You could FEEL the sheep's foot vibrating from inside the house while it was running. I think this equipment does a great job of compacting soil.

well, thanks for the comments so far: these are projects that i have been considering and planning for some time- did not just wake up this morning and decide to get er done. have read the legendary 590 and other fine resources from this site and others- plan to dig the first one MYSELF for practice and to see how it can be done and how long and then proceed to the bigger ones. I have watched and studied. I have spent hours at the site contemplating the amount of dirt that is going to be moved. If my jd 260 won't cut it then i can get someting bigger- if we listened to the likes of meadolark then the moon would still be green cheese.

While not a pro, i am not a novice equipment operator and am well aware of the ass-puckering situations one can get in to traversing steep slopes and digging in the earth- and i also realize that is it dry this time of the year in texas. sure glad we have such an expert as medowlark on the site however.

I have been digging at the site - know what my soil is and know there is no rock - just loads of beautiful clay.

Well, as a matter of fact sir, I have done a little moon work, and I can assure you, for whatever you think its worth, the moon is not green cheese. Moons I happen to know about as a professional; ponds are my love. Ignore my well intentioned advise, its certainly your right...but its also mine to choose who I offer it to in the future.

p.s. and please it's Meadowlark, if you don't mind.

Loaders ain't that great for pushing dirt. If they were, pond builders would use them instead of dozers. You might make it work but it will be a lot of work.

well - back to the topic at hand. if you recall i was trying to share my plans and solicit comments- about having 3 ponds planned and that I was about to begin construction on the first pond, which will be about a 3/4 acre extension of a one acre pond that is in my backyard, and that i was going to do it my self. the fourth was D day and i set out at dawn to begin my pond carving adventure- armed, i hoped with knowledge of my machine ( JD 260 skid steer with 72in construction bucket- 84" blade and steel tracks to be installed this week and the plan was to have this equipment in place before digging began.) i have owned this tractor three years - about 275 hours of using it with a brush cutter clearing mesquite and other "lite", non sustaining digging operations - so i had never really put this machine to the digging test - however when i bought the machine the pond building plans were in the mix for a verstile tractor that when it came down to it COULD DIG- well the 260 can, and when fitted with the tracks the traction will be the cat's meow; or "sick" if it were a chopper .knowledgeable and aware of safety precautions( for goodnesss sake )and a knowledge of the soil - the soil, the dirt at this site is , thank the earth;it is the most beautiful clay one could imagine - just perfectly perfect

so we set out yesterday at dawn - cleared a set of three mesquites that were in the line of the dam. this, is courtesy of "earth ponds" by tim matson,is a dug and dammed pond:the dam is at the south side of a sloping piece of land so the the dam is like filling in the missing rim of an earthen bowl. judging by the appearance of a freshly dumped 8yd truck of decomposed granite- for which i have judged many- that corresponnding pile in my mind was the judge of the earth i moved, and by that calculation in about four hours i had moved 200 cu yards of material- and believe me it did not make much of a dent in the amount of earth yet to be moved to complete this project. just scratched the surface,quite literally and figuratively ; however as i work more - 5 hours today, i can see in my mind that at a steady pace it should take 5 weeks or possibly til labor day- taking my time and having fun.

anyone in the area is welcome- email me

Sounds like you have everything under control. Good luck and enjoy.