Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Bluegill spawning sites

My pond does not have many shallow areas - most of the shoreline drops off into 4' or deeper water within a couple feet and most of the areas under 6' deep has water shield growing. Hence I have never been able to see BG spawning beds. I've noticed the crappie tend to spawn at the edge of the shore and have wondered if my BG and bass spawn & recruitment is hurt by lack of shallow water. I can see a couple of the larger bass spawning in the shallow areas in the spring. My bass recruitment has also seemed rather low so I am wondering if a lack of suitable shallow water breeding spots is a limiting factor.

Recruitment is probably an issue due to improper habitat for that size fish.

?

As I understand it, the depth problem is lack of sunlight penetration that the eggs need.

Yes, the lack of suitable spawning habitat is hampering successful reproduction. What you are seeing is probably from a very few pairs of fish pulling off a spawn.

Is it a matter of sunlight, or heat?

Photoperiod, water temperature and depth. I'd also like to add slope of the pond bottom. Even if the photoperiod, water temp and depth is correct, they won't spawn on a slope that is steep enough so the eggs will roll out of the nest. For a spawning area I don't like to see steeper than 4:1, and the flatter it is the better.

How does a bloom affect spawning?

Since I've added lime my pond has developed a bloom that puts the visibility about 12" from mid July until mid September.

In the spring visibility was around 3-2.5' . Over the last couple weeks of Sept visibility has been about 18' and getting clearer.

i'm not real concerned about the bass recruitment but would like to ensure the BG have good recruitment.

Does it make sense to sink large flower pots full of gravel as someone suggested in another thread?

There are a lot of experts on this site, but there is also no substitution for running a good old fashioned experiment.

Maybe create one or two BG spawning beds at a site you can easily observe, but doesn't have a heavy human presence disturbing the fish.

When you see BG on the beds there, do a good survey of the rest of your pond. If you don't see any other BG on beds, then you definitely have a lack of appropriate spawning habitat.

12" visibility is getting a wee bit on the worrisome side of things for a summer fish kill. 18" summer visibility is a lot better.

Rod, there is more to this than making a bedding area. We can add the best substrate ( of what we understand is the best) and they may or may not use it. Here's the thing.. we may not understand -ever- why they use one area and not another, even though "we" feel the habitat is perfect.
Each pond seems to be different too.. so I don't feel assuming there is a lack of the right substrate is really a complete answer.
If the pond is big enough, and we add substrate in enough areas, chance is there will be more beds (in one area or another) but what we proved is what? If we did the entire pond, they will still only use certain areas and I think I can safely say the fish are the only ones that know why. Last year (winter) I added tons of sand and pea gravel. The area they moved up into got over-taken by Tilapia and the BG were run out. I have yet to figure out where they successfully bedded but I have 1/2' to 1.25" BG everywhere.

Snipe, was the quote above, the worst advice in my post? (Especially, the use of the word "definitely"?)

I was mainly trying to help with his observations. If/when he sees the BG on the habitat he created, then he knows that is a good time to survey the rest of the pond and see if he can find the existing places that the BG prefer.

I believe the BG will spread out their spawning over the calendar, but I thought it would still be valuable for we amateur observers to have a clue of WHEN to start looking at the rest of the pond.


Your observation above should actually have been the first thing we asked the OP, since the presence of small BG is proof of successful spawning.

Snipe, were you able to observe the small BG in your ponds just in the course of your normal pond management chores, or did you mainly observe them by catching them in your fish traps?


nvcdl,

Your original post expresses concern about your BG and bass spawn and recruitment. What is the range of sizes that you catch and/or observe for each of these species?

(I fear that I previously put the cart before the horse! Trying to salvage the thread for you.)

Rod, you may or may not "see" active BG on the beds every time. And yeah, the word "definitely" is sometimes dangerous because to me, it signifies a measure of certainty. For me to say "you definitely have a lack of spawning habitat" would be an assumption on my part and assumptions get me in trouble.
Fish are amazing critters.. they seem to get off a spawn of some sort even in the worst conditions (more accurately-what WE see as worst conditions) yet spawns may not be as good as we would expect with great conditions for the same reason.
I don't think it's bad advise, I just think based on my experience it's a bold assumption. 50/50 chance either way. This falls into the "it depends" category.
My point is the BG are going to dish out bottom and try to spawn even if substrate isn't perfect. I think hatch rates and survival are results of better areas and materials, and really didn't mean there is right and wrong, just good, bad and better.
I seen no activity this year after the TP ran the BG out early..have no clue where the BG nested but very obvious they made it happen.
I don't know what the OP's capabilities are but I can also say if yoy aren't showing up in a trap-doesn't mean they ain't there but I didn't see any young until mid Aug in the traps. I trap when the WT hits 60 until it drops to 50. I remove every BG I catch because I have no LMB, so I grow the BG and sell'em.
As the water goes down this fall, I'll see where they made nests but I haven't found them yet.

The fish seemed to do fine this summer. I think the bloom created a good amount of oxygen.

With the bloom this year I haven't really been able to see many fish other than the ones I've caught. Prior to me liming the pond the visibility was better and I could observe fry better.

There are some BG fry I can see in flooded edges of the pond now. I only saw one fry ball of LB this year. Could see young bass swarming around the surface area structure I sank in the pond. Haven't been catching a lot of small bass - on a good bass fishing day in the summer I might be able to catch 5 or 6 in a couple hours with the fish averaging about a 1.5 lbs. The large bass seem to be pretty hook shy - have only had much luck catching them during spawning season.

In years past I figured crappie were decimating a lot of fry. At this point I think I have the crappie population pretty well thinned out.

Small to medium BG can consume large numbers of eggs/fry also.. When a guy thinks about some of this, it's amazing anything shows up.
nvcdl, are you familiar with the "Z" trap??

I have a z trap.

Let the sampling begin!

Z trap placed near vegetation or other good cover in 1-3' water over night and run mid morning should tell you about what you have going on.. Do that for about a week and update us on catch.

Update: Last year I put 5 kiddie wading pools filled with pea gravel on top of cinder blocks along shoreline that was a bit too deep for spawning before - had BG using them immediately to spawn all year. I also removed a lot of watershield along that shoreline.

I think it made a big improvement as this year I'm seeing far more BG in all size classes.

Good deal

It is amazing how the fish seek out the pea gravel. I'm loving seeing my 16x16 pea gravel 'sand boxes' just swarming with fish right now. And when the full moon hits, it'll be doubled!!

What depth are the kiddie pools now?

Was the "unusable" shoreline too steep, and only flattened enough for spawning at a depth too great for spawning? If so, what was that depth?

I am amazed my BG have managed to spawn on nothing but clay and silt for over 20 years.

Cranky Old Man mode off (maybe).

This is actually a great point. Spawning is going to take place no matter what.

Personally, I love how the pea gravel beds congregate them specifically. You can easily tell that it's their true preference.