Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Agitating the bottom to remove muck?

My research continues on how to deal with the muck in our 1.5 acre pond and I stumbled upon these 2 products that operate on the same idea - aggitate/disturb the bottom to "remove" muck and eliminate weeds:

https://www.lakerestoration.com/t-lakemaid-weed-removal-system.aspx
https://www.lakegroomer.net/aquatc-weed-muck-control-pricing/

I can see how this would work against weeds. However, I question how this would be effective against muck. Isn't it just stirring up the muck and allowing currents to carry it off (in the case when in a larger lake)? Our pond has an overflow outlet, but no natural flow through it (like a stream feeding and emptying) to carry off all the sediment, so it is really just relocating it for me to stir it up again; or am I not thinking about this correctly?

Thanks!

zuren I believe the idea is to stir up the muck so that aerobic microbes and bacteria can digest the muck. If the muck remains motionless it looses its oxygen and without oxygen it decays much much slower.

The drawback for this is the digested muck will add nutrients to the water column. Depending on your goals, this may be a bad thing. Now if you were able to stir things up during high water events when you had decent outflow, you could get some muck out.

Why are you wanting to deal with the muck? What are your goals?

Any idea or actual measurements as to how thick the mucky bottom material? Can we assume it is very black when the muck is roiled and agitated? Do you want to reduce it in primarily a swimming area or most of the pond?

So right around the time that I posted this question, life got a little difficult and I had to focus on family. That being said, I'm still here, I still have the pond, and it still has a fair amount of muck. I'll address some of the questions above:


The overall goals are to:

- increase depth
- allow for more pleasant swimming and fishing
- reduce/eliminate algae blooms

We have substantial algae blooms in the the spring. The pond is shared with 2 other properties, and it is my understanding that over the years, nothing was done to address the cause of the blooms, only eliminate the immediate bloom. Copper sulfate has been the chemical of choice for many years. As I learn more about pond management, these algae blooms are a symptom and not the underlying problem. Treating the algae with copper sulfate just helps to perpetuate the problem:

Algae forms out of the muck on the bottom and rises to the surface -> Algae gets treated with copper sulfate -> Algae dies and sinks -> Dead and sunk algae becomes more rotting organic matter on the bottom to perpetuate more algae blooms

To break this cycle, I believe I need more aeration and address the muck directly.


The muck is exceptionally black. If my golden lab mix gets excited and having fun in the pond, she looks like a black lab when she comes out. My measurements have not been scientific, but the muck is 1-2 feet deep. I would like to reduce the muck in the entire pond, but happy to start around the 3 docks/swimming areas first.


Last year was the first year in this pond's several decade life that it had any aeration. I will be adding aeration to a different section of the pond this year.

Thanks!

I recently read that someone (esshup?) had a suggestion for measuring your muck depth.

They said to take a piece of larger diameter PVC pipe (2"?) and probe for the lake bottom. Mark the pipe. Then plunge the pipe as far into the bottom as possible and make another mark.

I believe the theory was that you should be able to work the pipe all of the way through the muck and the pipe only stops when you hit firm substrate (which was the original bottom of the pond).

[I was thinking of drilling a hole through both sides of the pipe (at the top) and inserting a 1' piece of rebar to make a good handle for driving and subsequently pulling the pipe.]

Zuren, your best bet is as much mechanical agitation of the bottom as you can while the aeration adds the oxygen to the newly disturbed sediments and areas below them. IN a limited area one of those deicer jet pumps at the end of the dock can do a great job. It rotates and blows the sludge up and into the water column allowing oxygen under it and some dispersal. You might be able to move it from time to time and cover much of the shore line.

Deeper water holds muck and harder to get oxygen under that muck. I have envisioned a large trash pump discharge on a pipe and pushing up and down into the muck layer? Can you do that from a boat? Not sure.

Motor boat prop wash works in shallow water.

Fixating the front of a seadoo (safely) and using the jet output of water gives tremendous power to blast loose the layers of sediment on the bottom. Again, not sure how to direct that jet into the deepest waters. Respect the power of that jet so that no one behind you gets hurt.

Other mechanical means might include a long rope system and dragging a mattress box spring, or a home made metal drag back and forth through the deeper areas?
Some have create a long pole with large tined rake and attached that to the front of a front end loader mounted on a tractor to reach out and disturb and scrape out muck.

I have toyed around with another crazy idea. You have seen those heavy yellow metal 'tractor' sprinklers that pull hoses around in your yard? What if you had something like that, heavy enough to walk across the bottom of your pond. Then you hook a larger hose (maybe 1" from a trash pump) and then direct the water to a horizontal bar with downward directed jets. Of course the movement from the tractor sprinkler comes from spinning the arms on top which turns gears. Not sure how well arms would spin underwater but the whole contraption could somehow still be water powered to move slowly across the bottom.

Wow canyon, lots of good things for people to try depending on their conditions.

Has anyone tried dragging a heavy fluke-type anchor around the bottom when you know a big rain event is coming? If your water is going to get dirty from the rain, why not let nature do some of the water exchange and suck out some of the muck you just agitated into the water column?

I have a pond that was built in 1973 and is about 28' deep with virtually no maintenance. It has muck built up about 5' deep. Vegetation would grow up to the surface and then die. I started pulling it out by the boat load. I used a 3" trash pump to suck the muck out and pumped it to an above ground pool then I would let it settle and drain the water to my bait fish pond and let the muck drain to a pit from the other end of the pool. I then took my jet ski and fastened a plumbing 90 degree fitting to the jet on the ski I can cruise around the pond and blast water and air down into the muck even in the deepest part of the pond. Although in water 12' or less it mixes the muck pretty well. On top of that it creates a nice bloom for about a week and a half without having to buy fertilizer.

Great plan cb.

With some good marketing, you can be the only person on Pond Boss that has teenage boys pay them for the privilege of de-mucking the pond!

I never thought about that. I could just imagine ten jet skis motoring around my pond. I don't think the fish would appreciate it. But last year it got low enough to pump dry and I removed about 1800 yards of material with an excavator and a large loader

What did you do with your fish when you pumped it dry? (Or was that the time to do a heavy equipment cleanout and start over?)

cb100 says "pond that was built in 1973 and is about 28' deep with virtually no maintenance. It has muck built up about 5' deep" and "last year it got low enough to pump dry". Please educate us - How big was the pond acres? and after 48 years prior to final draining how many big fish remained? My experiences are when a pond is killed or drained the owner usually asks ""What happened to all my big fish? ""

I caught most of the fish and transferred them to a neighbor's pond. I was able to clean out an area about 30'x10' and 5' deep with the excavator. Most caught with rod and reel some with a throw net.mostly cc up to 20 pounds the larger ones died earlier most of the smaller fish were probably eaten as the pond went down. But I had some black bears come in and pull some out eat their fill and the coyotes and vultures cleaned up.

The pond is about 1 and a quarter acre

That is quite a comprehensive clean up operation!