Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Property Projects & Construction What did you do at your pond today?

I'm fairly well pleased with the results I've seen from feeding Optimal.

Bull Shoals has produced another Missouri state record YP.

https://mdc.mo.gov/newsroom/jefferson-county-angler-catches-new-state-record-yellow-perch

Rusto, I know my FHM, GSH, BG and YP all hit the Optimal Jr., I don't know if my RES or LMB ever hit it. I thought I might of seen the LMB going for some but they were probably going after the FHM eating the pellets. The LMB probably want something bigger but I'm sure they get some by eating the smaller fish that ate the pellets I asked Dustin last spring if I should switch to the BG and he told me he would stick with the Jr. and that I really never had to switch. With the Jr being smaller and more pellets per cup it is easier for more fish to get a chance to get a pellet. I think I would maybe like to try mixing the two.

There is no fish food for all fish.

From Fish Nutrition PB Presentation


Basic Food Components – Nutrition


• The immense variety of cultured finfish species hampers efforts to simplify production industry wide. Approximately 170 taxa are currently cultured, including carnivores, herbivores, planktivores, and omnivores, each posing its own set of nutritional demands .

• Fish meal has proven to be an excellent dietary protein source for finfish, leading to its description as an ‘‘ideal protein.’’ The ideal protein concept is based on the premise that if the amino acid profile of the feed mimics the whole-body amino acid profile of the animal being fed, protein utilization and growth should be maximized

• Lipids, fatty acids, and their derivatives play a role in virtually every physiological process that occurs and for this reason dietary lipid composition and content represent a massive sector of overall nutrition. Nowhere is this more true than in finfish nutrition where lipid can exceed protein in the body composition of finfish, a testament to the physiological and energetic importance of this nutrient class (Tocher2003). Aside from physiological importance, lipids are indispensable energy sources, especially for finfish, which are not well-adapted to carbohydrate utilization.

• Dietary protein and energy must be kept in proper balance because a deficiency or excess of dietary energy can reduce growth rates. Fish fed diets deficient in energy will metabolize more expensive dietary protein to meet energy requirements. Excess dietary energy can decrease protein intake and suppress growth.

• finfish do not require carbohydrates in their diet, … complex carbohydrates cannot be digested and utilized efficiently by most finfish species. A general dichotomy exists in the carbohydrate digestive ability of warmwater omnivores and herbivores versus the inability of coolwater and coldwater carnivores, which lack the appropriate function necessary for digestion of carbohydrates.

• For this reason, diets fed to these fish rarely contain more than 20% complex carbohydrate

• Conversely, warmwater omnivores or herbivores (e.g., channel catfish, tilapia, common carp, and white sturgeon) adapt well to diets containing as much as 40% dietary carbohydrate .

• Although vitamins and minerals are required in minute amounts compared with protein, lipid, and so forth, they are critically important, … Every micronutrient has a deficiency disease associated with it, the effects of which are sometimes irreversible or fatal. For a few vitamins and most minerals, excess can be equally detrimental, resulting in toxicity.

Thanks for that great post, ewest!

Not only does it explain the correct diet, but it gives the REASONS for the recommendations.

I looked at my bag of Optimal Jr and it looks like the image on their website with the blue square in the left lower corner giving the description of the product. But mine says round floating pellets instead of mixed length floating pellets. I think mine said 3.5mm instead of 3mm.

We have a mystery!! I might be able to get my bag out of the bottom of the trash can before it goes to the curb?
Someone from optimal used to check on the forum once in a while. Can we ask them to solve the mystery?

I might be able to bend their ear. LOL

I can take some pictures of mine tomorrow if it will help.

I got the dial caliper out and measured half a dozen pellets.

They ranged .120"-.140", which translates to just over 3mm to ~3.5mm.

So it seems that what we got was Jr., just not the normal mix of varied-length Jr.

This batch came in a black bag.

I couldn't get to the label without making a big mess, so I'm no help on that bit.

No ear bending required Scott.

Yes, there were some round pellets that went out accidentally last year. I thought I had called everyone affected, but it seems I must have missed a few.

We offer a few special lines of feed through a program we call the "Signature Series". Before we got the fancy printed signature series bags, everything came in white/black bags with a sticker. In the warehouse at that time we had both a "Junior" and a "Junior low phos" diet. Some of the new warehouse staff didn't know there was a difference and was filling online orders off the wrong pallet until we caught it.

The low phosphorus feeds have a formulation geared to minimize phosphorus, but are still designed to grow fish. The biggest issue would probably be that feeders likely throw a bit more of the round pellets. It most certainly will not harm the fish. If anyone has any concerns, they are welcome to give me a call 833-919-3474.

Thanks. I would call that an optimal clarification of the issue.

Thanks guys! I got tied up today and didn't call. I guess I don't have to now!!

Harvested 8 LMB, 4 RBT (though we were expecting Stubby Steve lures to do much better), caught several 2 to 5 lb LMB we threw back. About a dozen CNBG in the 1/2 to one pound range, most returned. Trying hard to take out trout before they die in a month or two. Did not see any cormorants, but did see eagle, 4 geese, 6 wood ducks, kingfisher and a hummingbird. Oh, and a rather pale small heron along with the usual great blue.

Refilled 3 feeders on main BOW, fish eating vigorously. Good to see CNBG & BG finally moving in shallow! Tons of small minnow-like fish, I assume most are this year's LMB. Visibility around 30 to 36 inches, despite 25 lb of fertilizer I put in last week. Always a battle to get a good bloom, even after liming.

Herbicide treatment last summer knocked back almost all pond weeds, including those I liked. Almost nothing has come back yet, so I am reluctant to stock grass carp. Only a little algae so far, think I need to fell another couple trees to create cover. Waiting on threadfin shad stocking to help feed my HSB.

That sounds like a really good day at the pond!

"Herbicide treatment last summer knocked back almost all pond weeds, including those I liked."

Did you treat for algae, or for other undesirable plants?

Can you cut back some on your treatment rate this year and see if you can achieve your target goals without wiping out the plants you want?

Which of your desirable plants did survive? (I am definitely going to need some "good" plants on my shorelines to combat Kansas winds.)

Thanks,
Rod

Took down two dead trees at the edge of the pond, each between 24" and 28" DBH. Needed a rope and a tractor to make sure they didn't fall into the pond. Now pecking at digging a 20' x 20'+ x 4' deep pond to see if SoilFloc will work at sealing sand if it's incorporated into the sand bottom first. If it works, then I will dig a couple of 1/20 ac ponds and use it to seal them.

I'm feeding Optimal Bass and Bluegill and some samples of baby bluegill and large bass pellets. Thank you Optimal for the nice pricing on samples. I've seen some bass or maybe two pound bluegills take the large bass hand throws. The catfish however have honed their senses to find the big hand throws in a sea of regular bass pellets. I have not seen "low phosphorus" feed online...I'd prefer it I think...and ready to order another bag of the regular bass size (which everything, including our dog, loves!)

I'd bet low phosphorus equates to less fish meal. Depends on what your growing ... but if there isn't a big difference in the price ... I'd probably stick with the regular stuff. Hopefully it's formula remains consistent over time.

Yeah, Rod, it was a really good day. April is my favorite fishing month, as just about everything is biting. High winds are the biggest headache.

I treated for bushy pondweed problem, but also wiped out my desirable american pondweed and pickerelweed. Algae is not a problem as the tilapia take care of it. If I don't get good weed growth this year, may have to dial back tilapia stocking since the algae will help yoy fish hide in the absence of weeds.

The low P Optimal is a special run made for a large pond supply/consultation company. IIRC it's only slightly less P than the normal stuff. And the normal stuff IIRC is less P than Aquamax.

Frank, I just added Sonar this week to treat the BPW (Southern Niad). One Qt to treat the 3+ acre pond that has a lot of the BPW even though it is early spring and last year's plants may not have had their seeds sprouted as of yet. I have some Aquathol Super K if I need it later on. Like you, I wish my favored plants (APW) would make a comeback. I really like that plant for the LMB/BG. I am concerned that later on this summer when I add some new APW plants to the pond, will they make it? How long does the Sonar last when it comes to killing off the plants? Does anyone know, time-wise, when it might be successful to replant the APW? I don't get much water change from the rains for dilution so I am guessing it may be a good while before I can get desired plants established after the treatment.

The Bald Eagle was resting in a tree overlooking the pond the day I treated the pond.

I am totally unsurprised regarding the special order by the pond supply/consultation company. But I am curious. If they only wanted slightly less P, why didn't they just use slightly less of the regular stuff? Just saying ...

My guess is marketing. Just like calories or carbs, when have you heard an advertisement say just eat less?

Tracy, I don't know how long the treatment lasts. I expected weeds to come back by now, surprised they have not. I get a complete turnover of water about every 9 to 12 months, so there should be very little herbicide left.

I'm gonna have to adjust my plans if weeds don't return soon. May not be any point to stocking TFS if there aren't weeds for them to spawn on. Fell some more trees, add some manufactured cover as well. Miss the APW, that's for sure.

Tracy:

How many gallons of water are in your 3+ acre pond?

I dug a 25'x25'x4' deep pond between yesterday and today, will treat the sandy soil with Soilfloc before I fill it with water, Not completely done, but done moving dirt. Small test pond. It would have gone faster if I had an excavator, but all I had was a FEL on the tractor. If the test works, I'll rent an excavator and put in some 1/20th - 1/10th acre ponds to raise some fish that aren't commonly easily found on the pond stocking market.