Bill, Thanks for all the great info. and i`ll keep you posted on the progress. I guess we`ll see on the soil conditions next week,the area around is sandy but not sure what we will find when we start digging. We both like frog legs so I guess I can adjust the volume somewhat with a gig.I have an extention office here so I will stop in monday and check on that book.I also printed out a copy of your post on perch from 5/29/2002.