Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water How long does it last (treatment) ?

Google says: Macrophytes are aquatic plants growing in or near water. They may be either emergent (i.e., with upright portions above the water surface), submerged or floating.

And emergent and submerged-rooted-Macrophytes are probably the most important type of vegetation you can have. Very important piece of the puzzle as TJ suggests..

The season is just about over but got another question. Iv read that mowing towards the water is good for the water and also bad. Which one is it good or bad for water clarity?

Also had another idea. Since i'm in the middle of digging my pond out I was thinking. Would it be helping to spread alum out along the bottom before the water fills it up or would that be a waste? Is there anything you can do before the water comes to help with the clarity. Would spreading the ag lime over the clay layer help or just a waste of money? I know I ramble lot my wife tells me all the time. I say I'm a thinker and a doer lol (more thinking than doing). Right now as the water runs over the topsoil its clear and as soon as it hits the clay its murky. Just seems like maybe theres a way to avoid the murkiness before it happen. Is it a good idea to put topsoil on top of the clay layer when done digging?

You should ck your soil before you add the lime to the ponds bottom but I would try lime additions if lime is needed, before I would use alum to clear up the water. Alum is not cheap. And you would have to use hydrated lime along with the alum to keep the pH in the desired range. I would suggest you wait and see before u just throw things into the water.

With how much talk there is on here about alum its sure hard to find it for sale. I look under the resource guide and not finding it on any of the websites. Am I just missing it or whats the deal?

Do you have any Helena Chemical plant/warehouses in your area?
Helena has a source and can get it for you.

Holy crap its going to be over 600 dollars just for the alum. I was told a minimum of 200 lbs. Its 150 bucks plus for 48 lbs. That's not including the Ag lime that has to be added. I guess I havnt seen anyone post the number on the price on here before. I wasnt thinking it would cost so much.

Keep looking I paid about a little less than 50 per bag. As a last resort contact a local water treatment plant in your area. They could tell you who supplies them. They use alum powder but I think most have gone to liquid form these days.

Thanks for the tip Tracy. I happen to know a few cities workers.

Here is the latest pic of the test. Some progress made. I'm sure the CC and koi and crawdads are not helping my problem. I think when I'm done with the dig I will take the rest of the cats out.

Here's the latest of the jar I was playing around with. It's almost like a magnifying glass looking thur it.

The latest picture dont show much difference. I reread this post and I wasnt correct on my info. I said my bank was all grass. That was wrong it was all grass until I started digging on it. It had always had terrible visibility. I guess I was speaking of the water before the dig. The water hasnt changed much.

Rainman got a question? Dont know if want to talk numbers on here or not. Your PM is all full.

Here's the last test. It looks like just dirty water now. Before it was just nasty looking. You can see thur it now at least. But man just a tad bit of alum. And bam gin clear. Its amazing how that stuff works and how little.

Okay I got another question. Let's say my pond would take 300 pounds of alum. to clear it up. But I only put in 200 because I dont want some of the problems that come with crystal clear water. Will it clear up most of the way or is it an all or nothing type of deal? I'm sure this has been answered before but it's kinda slow here during the winter so bouncing some ideas around.

When applying alum to clear water you have to reach the tipping point where flocculation occurs or nothing will happen.

When applying alum, and there are fish in there, you have to keep testing the pH and have some hydrated lime on hand to buffer it with or the pH change could kill the fish.

I understand bout the lime. What I was questioning is the tipping point. I didnt know about that. I figured it took so much to get it clear. My thoughts was if i just wanted to clear it up somewhat but not totally clear. Didnt know there was a tipping point to start the flocculation. So it is kind of all or nothing. Not trying to waste anyone's time on this. Just curious on how this all works. I'm sure there are other tht dont totally understand this. Dont get me wrong I would love gin clear water. It sounds like it comes with other headaches along with it.

Once the water clears, it won't stay gin clear for long, with the sunlight you will get a phytoplankton bloom and that will limit sunlight penetration, depending on how dense the bloom is. I'll see if I can get Rex to chime in.

I did some experimenting before I used the alum/lime treatment. Using a 5 gal bucket of pond water and started adding grams of alum to determine how many sks of alum to use. I stayed with Rex's recommendations of 2 alum to 1 hydrated lime when I treated the pond. For total gin clear water it came up to around 112 sks for this 3 acre pond. I wound up using 89 sks with 45 sks of lime. I added it to 1/2 the pond. My thinking was the other half of the ponds might act as a refuge for the fish during treatment. And I figured the pond water would blend at some point. I wound up with water clarity going from 9" to 36" and within a few days it settled in at 30" of water with a green tent. There have been no other headaches. But I will say I now have vegetation growing in the pond. Bushy Pondweed is growing where I had none before. I'm pretty sure the veg growth is due to more light penetration the ponds bottom. I did the treatment because of high detritus most likely being disturbed/suspended by the bottom diffusers

Its chemistry . The reaction point is chemical as are the reactions - negative and positive charges need to combine. Tracy yours sounds typical.

Note - All the coagulants mentioned can
remove phosphorus from water.
As phosphorus is an essential
plant nutrient, it may be necessary
to fertilize the pond after treating
it for turbidity. On occasion, phytoplankton
and clay can mutually
coagulate, so fertilizing to start a
phytoplankton bloom may also
clear water of suspended clay particles.

Sorry I missed this thread.....Alum, when I apply it runs about $.90-$1.45 per pound of alum required, based on total water volume, travel, time, etc. and includes all chemical needed...Obviously, the greater the water volume, the lower the cost per pound...fuel, lodging, meals, equipment, etc are all static costs that have to be covered...That gives some people a range, and each pond is different.

TGW1, I am glad you got your pond cleared some, but your "theory" about the water mixing was not correct....Alum falls through the water column and needs to be sprayed over the entire water surface. To allow "safe space" for fish to retreat to, you only need to spray lines of Hydrated lime...The H lime will move slowly through the entire water column and will allow the pH to remain essentially stable.

RStringer...Alum, retail, should cost no more than $1.00 per pound....I buy from some major chemical supply companies and get a decent discount...After 9/11, homeland security made chemical suppliers complete Homeland security background checks on all customers, so you can not go to major wholesalers and just buy it anymore...Liquid Alum is considered Hazmat, and unless you have a CDL with the proper hazardous endorsement, no chemical supplier will load you. I also read that you have Koi in your pond...Unless you know they are all the same se, Koi will root heavily on the bottom and badly muddy your pond....I treated a church pond in Tulsa that had Koi, and wanted to keep the Koi...I told them the Koi are the turbidity source, and after they needed a second treatment, they paid to have me drain the pond, send the adult koi back to the donating parishioner, and kill everything else....The pond has stayed clear ever since.

Yes I did put 3 koi's in the pond. No clue if they are the same sex or not. I havnt seen them since I put them in. They may have just been expensive snacks. They was only bout 3-5 inches. If I have to get them out not sure how I would find them lol. I do plan on taking out the grass crap and catfish out this summer. Thanks for the response.

Rstringer...add a heavy dose of Alum and you will darn sure see any Koi!!!

Will it matter if I dont have any vegetation yet? I was thinking I need to get it growing before I do anything with alum. Maybe it dosnt matter or not. I just want it to last as long as possible.