Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations new hybred tiger and gurella bass???

In the Feb.05 magazine bass master, they had an article about a new hybred largemouth bass developed mainly for ponds. They crossed florida bass with northern breeders and came up with this aggressive bass. They talk about 7 1/2 lb bass in 27 months. They have been working on this cross for years and came up to an answer for the slower growing northern bass. I live in central Ohio and would like more info. I e-mailed the address given in the magizine and have not been answered. Does anyone else know of this?? Tom

Tom, they list phone numbers in that magazine issue also. Why don't you call them to learn more? They've probably been getting a few thousand emails after that article ran.

I'll have to recheck which magazine that I read it in. It was either Bass master or Bassin' I did find more on this site under choosing types of fish. Others have heard about it and some are very afraid of the idea. They think that it is a gimmick. They feel that these crosses will revert back after breeding with the local fish. Maybe so, but wouldn't the Florida strain still help? I don't know. Still looking for info. Thanks.

Tom,

Just my two cents. I didn't read the article but I would be a afraid a bass with Florida genes may have trouble overwintering here up north. Additionally where was this 7 1/2 pound bass cultured? Was it as far north as Ohio?

I do know in my grow out of fish I try and make sure my northern supplier is not getting fish from the south. I'm not convinced they will over winter as well as the same species this far north. And I'm talking about bass and bluegills that are not Floridas and coppernose.

Of course you are aware both Florida bass and coppernose will perish in lakes and ponds that ice over?

Tom, you were correct in your first post; it was in Bass Master Magazine.

One of the suggestions for some of these "new" LMBs was that if you put just a few in your pond (3-5 per acre), that their own respective aggressive behavior will rub off on the other LMB in the pond. The existing bass will no longer be able to casually go after their meals 'cause these new aggressive bass will get to it first.

For some on this forum that have lamented about how hard their current LMB are to catch, this idea may be worth researching.

I'm only basing my statements on what I've recently read. I have no idea if this thing holds water, so to speak.

I have sold these fish for 5 years. I call them F1's but American Sportfish calls them now "Tiger bass". This has been talked about on here before. They have done very well as far north as northern KY for my clients.

Not sure if I believe all they claim, but it does not matter this the only place I buy my F1's. I trust they are truley a cross betewen a norhtern and Florida and that is the point. I also know if folks follow the advice and stock proper forage and follow other pond advice they have impressive growth and catch rates.

We usually shock the lake in the following October so 16 months after stocking 2 inch fingerling. Typically the bass are 2 to 3 lbs. With closer to three being avg. We have had several over 4 lbs and the best was 5.2 lbs. No kidding in less than 1.5 years. We only stocked 25/acre in that case with super high forage base. Keep in mind this is also mostly in middle GA with a longer growing season than yankee country

Also if stokcing with existing populaitn you will need to by at least 8-10 inch fish to survivie bass predation.

Greg,

Are these fish feed trained? Maybe I could chalk up another state record eh? It would be worth a try and I do have very good success getting smaller feed trained bass up to size in a floating cage until they are large enough to escape predation. If they don't make it they don't make it.

Do you have contact numbers for this supplier?

They are not fed trained when avail as 2 inchers in JUne. However they hold some true northerns and the Tiger Bass. I think in about July or so they will be fed trained. I have some now in may ponds they I bought as fed trained 8 inchers in November. They have not fed well all winter but started eating some pellets just last week during a warm spell. I hope to get them to 10 inches to sell in a about two months.

It is American Sportfish, going there Thursday for grass carp. 334-281-7703. Also not sure where you are exactly but hopefully closing this week on property in KY. In other words if in south central Indiana I can get you some if you want to meet me.
Thanks

Greg,

I would be interested but unfortunately we are still under ice here and so are my cages. Thanks for the offer I really appreciate it!

Any way you can find out how far north they will make it?

thanks guys, I can always get ideas on this site. It sounds like central Ohio may be a little too far north to try tiger bass.

Cecil I did not mean this trip. I mean that I will be going to KY quite often, so if that is close enough for you let me know. Wish me luck on buying the land.

Greg,

Hope you get the property and I emailed you.

From what I've read the guerilla bass are a selectively bred (for their aggressiveness) northern strain lmb. The growth rate isn't as fast as the tigers (aggressive northern x Florida) but they are definately better suited for colder climates. The articles that I read stated that some of these fish are so aggressive that they can be coaxed to bite a bare golden hook. Might be worth a try if your bass become hook shy. Good luck and keep us posted.

Bassandgrass,

I think you have the tiger and gorilla reversed. Here's one biologist's take on them on another board. Not saying I agree with what he says, but I believe he does have the terminology right. I left his name out as he could get some flack from the suppplier.

BTW there is a study out now that does show superior growth with the "Georgia Giants."

"Lets nip this one in the bud. Tiger bass are essentially domesticated northern bass that have been raised for several generations on feed (ie. very assertive "aggressive" fish that will put anything in their mouth, not hard to find). Gorilla bass are the cross between the tiger bass (domesticated northern) and a wild florida strain bass. This blends the assertivness of a domesticated feed trained northern bass with the potential size of florida strain bass. In terms of rapid growth I cannot disprove the article but I will remind you that you can't believe everything you read. In my own experience yoy fingerlings from both domesticated stocks of northern bass and wild florida bass stocked at very light densities (50 per acre) in large minnow production ponds in May reach a size of 3/4 pound by November. In the southeast region there is a great demand for market size 1-2 pound feed trained northern bass for stocking in established fishing ponds to create good fishing when existing florida bass do not provide good fishing. These assertive domesticated northerns are eating machines and will put anything in their mouth resulting in rapid growth. I am not convinced that the creation of an F1 hybrid (gorilla bass) has a genetic advantage in terms of growth, I think the "aggressiveness" everyone talks about is simply the domesticated northern showing its true colors "assertiveness". Pure florida bass do not grow faster than northern bass outside of florida, they simply live longer thus reaching larger sizes. Therefore I am unsure about the rapid growth claims being made about F1 hybrids or Gorilla Bass. Research done in texas comparing the growth of northern bass, F1 hybrids and Flordia Bass when grown on a commercial feed indicate that northern bass grew faster, followed by F1 hybrids with a northern female, F1 hybrids with a florida female, then pure florida bass. All four feed trained similiarly. Lets not get carried away folks. If you want good fishing develop a wide forage base and stock market size domesticated feed trained northern bass. You can't keep them off the hook and they will eat everything they can get in their mouth. Lets not let this turn into another Georgia Giant fiasco, if it hasn't already."

Hear, here!

Cecil not sure who wrote that but BassandGrass has the terms correct. Not sure who even came up with the terms gorilla or tiger. However American Sportfish has used them and they are the ones promoting F1 (for probably more but) at least 6 years. THE GORILLA IS A NORTHERN SELECTED FOR AGRESSIVE NATURE. I posted this same response back last year. I call them F1 bass but Tiger bass is now became main stream so I say that more now.

Now on the response from this guy on another board. I agree with his last comments basically about forage being key to growing big bass. However I do not make false claims. I sell the bass at the same price I sell any other bass so why lie. The F1's have grown to over 5 lbs in 18 months. Avg growth over 3 lbs in 1.5 years. Again growth much less when folks have improper pond mgmt in place.

As far as the TX research....I can believe the 3/4 lb in 6 months deal. That is about right. It's the next spring and summer where you can almost watch them grow. They put on serious weight not just length during the second growing season. Also I have not compared pure northern to the F1's. However major point here is the research was commericial fed only. In a pond you have fish not just supplemental food and in my expereince these tiger bass do not eat food anyway when stocked as 2" fingerlings. So predictable the northern did better on feed. It might be scary how fast Tiger bass could grow if trained on food an then stocked with good forage base. This is not a "GA giant" this is a legit advantage if you live in the south where they will make it. Comments welcome as always.

Greg,

My post did not challenge your credibility whatsoever just makig a point that from my information the tiger is the northern bass and the gorilla is the cross of the aggressive northern bass and Florida bass. I believe bass and grass has it switched around unless I'm missing something here. Here's a quote from Barry Smith co-found of American Sportsman:

"To solve this problem, we've been breeding two strains of largemouth bass for 12 years. We call the super-aggressive northern strain the Tiger Bass, and the hybrid, which is a cross between the Tiger Bass and the Florida strain of black bass, the Gorilla Bass. These bass both are subspecies, meaning they are genetically different from the northern strain. The Tiger Bass are much more aggressive feeders and are easier to catch than the Florida bass. You actually can selectively breed these fish to be more aggressive over a period of time."

http://www.strikeking.com/journal/journal022-1.shtml

Cecil, I know you did not cahllenge credibility I just wanted folks to know that the F1 bass do really grow this well if pond managed properly.

Thanks so much for the article. This explains why folks are so confused. THE ARTICLE IS WRONG! I just spoke with Barry (the guy who started Tiger bass 12 years ago) before I posted this. The article flipped the terms. This explains why last year and agin this year folks are confused. It was stated once in the article all those who read it and have not personally bought the fish assumed it was correct. You know what happens when you assume. :rolleyes:

SO to clarify hopefully for the last time. Northern bass selected for its agressive nature is "Gorilla bass". This is crossed with FLorida bass selected for exceptional growth. The crosss is a F1 TRADEMARK named by American Sportfish the "Tiger Bass".

Thanks Cecil for bringing to light the source of bad information.

I too have been following this thread & have to thank Greg for going the extra mile to get to the source & share the facts.

Greg,

I should have known that you would have it right and some ding dong journalist would switch it around. After all I was one of those ding dong journalists once.

Glad we got all this corrected!

My apologies to you and Bass and Grass!

No apology needed I'm glad I finally found out the source of bad info. Glad it is clear.

Me too!

No apology needed here. It's you guys and your wisdom that makes me strive to learn more. Thanks for your posts and all the help they provide. Can't wait till the water warms so that I can learn more about my new pond and thermocline.

Bass and Grass,

Las Vegas Neveda? Don't you have some lack of water problems there although the growing season has got to be darn good for bass?

Cecil,
We have been in a draught for the past ten years in Las Vegas, Lake Mead was down about 80 feet. We have finally got an enormous amount of rain the past several months and the lake is back on the rise, about ten feet. My main fishery here, Lake Mead is gin clear with the visibility often to twenty plus feet on a calm day. Other fisheries in the area are mainly trout waters but one has had bass mysteriously introduced to it and is taking off like wildfire. This lake I'm talking about has a healthy population of crawfish which the bass love to gobble up. My concern is that the lake was managed for brown and rainbow trout and the rangers say the bass are not supposed to be in there. But it seems suspicious that all of the bass I caught are in the same year class, similar sizes. my guess is they must have been stocked on accident?!

We do have a long growing season here in Las Vegas. In washington where my pond is located it is in agricultural number 8a or 8b which seems similar to some of Texas. Does this number correlate to the length of the growing season or is it just a temperature range thing?

P.S. there is a picture of my pond on the pic post page at on this site. Page four of pictures, right side, second from bottom. If you are interested.