There are a lot of issues here and NH3 is definitely a possibility but it does look more like DO.
I would never recommend stocking a pond within 3 months of it being filled. Ammonia is definitely an issue in new ponds, especially when feeding is undertaken. This pond never had a chance to produce beneficial bacteria in equilibrium.
The only way you'll ever know is to either have the water professionally sampled, which can cost 300-1k or start dissecting fish. Until then, it's a guessing game.
I would be extremely curious to know if your fish are eating the unbound soilfloc you saw floating.
Last edited by Joey Quarry; 06/09/1909:37 PM. Reason: Soilfloc
I've worked on approx 200 projects, never experienced a kill event due to polymer [except one case treating a 2' max depth pond]. I've treated all 7 of my ponds with existing fisheries and have only found a handful of YOY BG and FHM morts following polymer treatment. Check stomach contents of some morts - will address the polymer question. Any FHM morts or just BG?
How's the pond level holding?
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
I've worked on approx 200 projects, never experienced a kill event due to polymer [except one case treating a 2' max depth pond]. I've treated all 7 of my ponds with existing fisheries and have only found a handful of YOY BG and FHM morts following polymer treatment. Check stomach contents of some morts - will address the polymer question. Any FHM morts or just BG?
How's the pond level holding?
I am just curious if they will eat the unbound Soilfloc, I am not proposing it as a cause of death. However, since it is pretty obvious this is a water quality issue now, why not check for that also while autopsying the fish?
I've worked on approx 200 projects, never experienced a kill event due to polymer [except one case treating a 2' max depth pond]. I've treated all 7 of my ponds with existing fisheries and have only found a handful of YOY BG and FHM morts following polymer treatment. Check stomach contents of some morts - will address the polymer question. Any FHM morts or just BG?
How's the pond level holding?
Pond level is doing fine. Still around 1/4in lost per day. Finally got some rain this weekend but it wasn’t but around an inch total. We hadn’t had rain in over a month. I’m 20in below full pool. It’s just strange I never had any fish lost since the restocking then over a month later a fish kill. It has to be the heat. I’m fixing to leave on vacation, so I won’t be able to check any fish. Bad timing to not be around. I put the aerator in about 6ft of water and put it on a timer to run from 12am to 7am. Yesterday evening I tested water temps again all over the pond at different depths. Surface temp was at 90. 1ft-8ft is around 84 and below that was 82. I had the aerator off all day. So maybe I can keep it cooler down deep. Hope I can still put in enough O2.
Some of that .25" daily vertical water loss is due to evaporation, so I'm very glad the polymer treatment was successful - that's an amazing turnaround!
Have a good vacation - we will be here when you return to help assess this situation. I don't have any experience raising fish in the broiling South, hopefully some of our seasoned Southern brothers will chime in with their experiences. I'm grateful you aren't losing 5# LMB - BG are cheap and easily replaced worst case scenario.
Might be worth calling American Sportfish - Lusk recently merged with them and Shawn uses a lot of polymer sealing client ponds. I'm sure they would have some practical experienced feedback. I also recommend sourcing fish through them moving forward.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
If BG are consuming polymer, I'm not sure of how it would impact them. It's non toxic, but wonder if the polymer could create some other issues, like plugging up the digestive process? This would be a first for me, but important science for the forum.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Had a chance to get to the pond. Water looks clearer since the pump isn't running full time. had 20 dead blue gill. never noticed any minnows dead. If they were dying, Id assume the bluegill would eat them as they died. Only had one freshly dead BG to do an autopsy on. No sign of soilfloc but it was such a small one, it would be hard to tell unless he gorged himself on it. I cut the stomachs open on both BG in the pic. Both were full of bugs. Didn't take a pic of that for some reason....
TJ, only thing I can come up with in a fresh fish is a bacteria that can cause this. The one fish still has full-good color and still shows the bulge. The longer they are dead-as you well know- gasses build causing the bulge but that's generally after most color is gone-not important here. Our region 1 Bio skirts around the forum some and I ask him to look at photo. His first response was size of eyes more than bulge. He did agree on potential bacteria but was hung up on believing that fish is much older than it should be for it's size. We also both noted the actual stomach is still in tact :-)) If the bacteria is present that causes the eye bulge, it can cause brain swell with disorientation and respiratory issues as well if severe enough. What I can't determine is cycle of this.. ie, is it present in waterbody or were fish exposed from another source.??
Neighbor been feeding dog and fish while I was gone last 7 days. Said only the 1st day I was gone had dead fish and it was only 3. I’m guessing running the aerator from 12am to 7am is working. Only had a little shower this morning. We need rain bad.
TJ, only thing I can come up with in a fresh fish is a bacteria that can cause this. The one fish still has full-good color and still shows the bulge. The longer they are dead-as you well know- gasses build causing the bulge but that's generally after most color is gone-not important here. Our region 1 Bio skirts around the forum some and I ask him to look at photo. His first response was size of eyes more than bulge. He did agree on potential bacteria but was hung up on believing that fish is much older than it should be for it's size. We also both noted the actual stomach is still in tact :-)) If the bacteria is present that causes the eye bulge, it can cause brain swell with disorientation and respiratory issues as well if severe enough. What I can't determine is cycle of this.. ie, is it present in waterbody or were fish exposed from another source.??
What can I expect to see if I was sold older stunted fish as for as the future of my pond? Will that age group just not develop as fast. Will they spawn and the new crop just take them over? Disease? Is it a serious problem or will they eventually grow into their eyes so to speak?
They will grow they just will never reach their full potential as max size. The off-spring will not suffer from this but the original stock usually has the best potential to reach monster sizes. I can't say this is absolutely the case but the eyes are "sometimes" an indicator of age. I suppose there could be some genetic differences that may cause this but normally, large eyes indicate lower growth rate in young fish. It seems to be most common in sunfish, although some other species will sometimes show this in extreme cases. As for the Bacteria that can cause this, I don't know that is what you have, only a possibility, and I could not find an answer to how it's transferred but it's something I would continue to look for. Continue taking pictures and recording data, I think that's all you can do at this point. EDIT: The more I look at your first pic the more I lean away from that being a pure strain BG. At least not what I'm used to seeing. It's got just a bit different body shape and I think the tail is telling a story too.. Maybe someone else can verify my thoughts.
Glad you aren't losing more fish. My original post stated I thought the fish looked stunted and recommended a new hatchery for your replacement fish...Is the pond level holding?
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
There are a lot of issues here and NH3 is definitely a possibility but it does look more like DO.
I would never recommend stocking a pond within 3 months of it being filled. Ammonia is definitely an issue in new ponds, especially when feeding is undertaken. This pond never had a chance to produce beneficial bacteria in equilibrium.
The only way you'll ever know is to either have the water professionally sampled, which can cost 300-1k or start dissecting fish. Until then, it's a guessing game.
I would be extremely curious to know if your fish are eating the unbound soilfloc you saw floating.
Stocking fish into newly filled ponds is a common and safe practice.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Common? Obviously. Safe? I would be curious to see the publication where it is not detrimental to the fish prior to the water successfully completing a "nitrogen cycle".
I hate to make a diagnosis over the interwebs from a photo but, the gills and kidneys on the bluegills appear to be suffering from hyperplasia, a symptom of NH3.
If Snipe is correct about the "eye bulge", it could be "Pop Eye" caused by corneybacteriosis. Another symptom of NH3.
Glad you aren't losing more fish. My original post stated I thought the fish looked stunted and recommended a new hatchery for your replacement fish...Is the pond level holding?
It’s still falling at that 1/4in per day rate. The water clarity has made a noticeable change since I’ve been gone all week and running the aerator just at night. Now that I can get more sunlight penetration, I’ll get a better algae bloom and add more oxygen. But may heat the water up more. I don't know. I’m still worried about my temp levels. Yesterday evening after a full sun day, my temps were at 84 all the way down to about 6ft, then 82 the last 2-4ft on bottom. Fish were active on feed as I made my round around the pond.
I remember comments were made about the fish eye size from the 1st post I made after stocking and had the fish kill. I’m hoping the new replacement fish were a fresher new batch if that was the case. Hard to tell looking at them in a plastic bag.
Moving to strictly night aeration will help keep your temps from rising. I had to back my start time to 11pm to give the surface temps a chance to cool before it got mixed in. Your temps being so close top to bottom is a good indication that the pond is getting at least one full turnover. You may be able to reduce your run times even more to allow your temps to cool more.
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
The other great benefit of aeration...temperature control! I ran my aerator in the daytime last winter to keep the pond warmer and moderate temperature changes.
Mike, how are your shiners doing? (Golden shiners?) I threw in seven pounds of 3 to 4 inch GS in March. They seemed to be skilled at avoiding predator attacks, loved and ganged up on Optimal Bass pellets, hunted fish fry and such in the pond light, but by mid-May they had all disappeared.
I bit the bullet and bought a solar powered Aerator, single diffuser, charge control with timer. Plan to start an hour a night about 2 am and spread to 4-5 hrs just until sunrise. Be interesting to see how this works beings we're still getting into low 50's at night.
Moving to strictly night aeration will help keep your temps from rising. I had to back my start time to 11pm to give the surface temps a chance to cool before it got mixed in. Your temps being so close top to bottom is a good indication that the pond is getting at least one full turnover. You may be able to reduce your run times even more to allow your temps to cool more.
I'm kind of confused at what to do. I want to put more oxygen in my pond without over heating it. How do I know what the right duration is? I may start even later than Midnight to see what my water temps do.
I bit the bullet and bought a solar powered Aerator, single diffuser, charge control with timer. Plan to start an hour a night about 2 am and spread to 4-5 hrs just until sunrise. Be interesting to see how this works beings we're still getting into low 50's at night.
What system did you buy Snipe. I need to put mine on solar. I'm about fed up with 150 ft of extension cord stretched out from my house.