Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water Alum Kicks Clay Butt!

Contact Bill Cody here on the forum...He is an expert on algae and can tell you how to send him a sample for analysis.

To revisit this thread.. I found my answer to why Hyd Lime is a much better choice than sodium carbonate.
#1., Hyd Lime adds the needed calcium and is cheap.
#2., Sodium carbonate has ZERO benefit as far as calcium addition, cost is 4 times as high and takes about 5 times longer as a buffer, pH actually dips some before coming back up to a more stable condition.
So, I guess I wonder now on my personal pond how much I really need to treat it..Or, do I need to treat it at all I guess.
Some ics has came off of the eastern 1/3 of my pond and I am shocked at the clarity. I expected it to be "clearer" but didn't expect to see bottom clearly in 4' of water. I suspect that will change with direct sunlight without ice and of course limited wave action even though the shore is complete riprap now except for an open 8' section my dock slides into and out of pond.
I see a continuous growth of FA that hasn't just disappeared under the ice so with the surrounding farm land and subsequent (low volume) run-off with fertilizers present, I "may" need to treat for Phos, or FA reduction only.
Is there such a recommendation for rates on that, Rex??

I suggest treating the water with cutrine plus first, then come back 2 weeks later with 100 pounds alum per acre foot of volume. If you treat/kill the FA, as it decomposes, Phos. is released, so the alum binds more total dissolved phos...Ask TJ about how this double shot regimen works....

I have a 0.64 acre pond with an average depth of 6.8'. It is about 17' in the deepest spot. The pond is about 35 years old and has been in various states of weediness. I dredged it out three years ago and got most of the muck out, but it probably had about 2' of muck remaining in the deepest areas that I could not reach. I have had no FA this year, but the pond has a milky green color. I am assuming I have a combination of planktonic algae and suspended clay. I have three Vertex diffusers running and am currently raising the diffusers off the bottom because I think they may be contributing to the turbidity. I sprayed 264 pounds of aluminum sulfate in a slurry with pond water over the pond yesterday. The clarity was 12" before treatment and 18" this morning. The ph was 9.4 before spraying and 8.4 this morning. I am concerned about the high ph level as well as the cloudy water. I am considering another alum treatment and/or the addition of Floc-logs. The pond is in eastern Iowa near the Quad Cities. Any ideas about how to deal with the high ph or cloudy water would be appreciated.

9.4 is going to be seriously hard on most fish.. 8.2 is probably as high as one would ever be able to sustain a good fishery.
I would want to find the reason pH is so high to begin with but more Alum would be OK.

9.4 does sound very high.

Can you check your test strips or meter against a known standard? I would hate to see you fighting a problem that was apparently worsened by some inaccuracy in your data.

Snipe and FishinRod- Thanks for the replies. I recalibrated my ph tester and checked it with 7.0 and 4,0 solutions and it was right on with those. The pond water has been at 8.4 the last couple of mornings. The clarity has been staying at about 21" also. I shut off the diffusers just before adding the alum and have left them off since. I believe that the green cloudiness is a planktonic algae bloom and I am considering treating the pond with Cutrine+ and then possibly following up with another alum treatment. i have been reading that the bloom may be adding to the ph level. I also read a comment on this thread where Rainman advised using a Cutrine+ treatment followed by an alum treatment. I used 60 lbs. per acre foot for the first alum treatment and may up it to 100 lbs./ acre foot for the next one, especially if the Cutine+ does not lower the ph. Any further comments or advice?

Also, I talked with the Floc-log people and they will provide a water test and recommendations if I send them a water sample.

The Cutrine+ will knock any planktonic or algal bloom down, as it breaks down, the Phos and Nitrogen will be released allowing the Phos to be locked up by the Alum.
60lbs/ac ft is good for "some" Phos being locked up with a small amount of colloidal clay but I think that's about 100lbs per ac ft short in my experience. I've used this method several times now and I've found 125-150lbs per ac ft is best in most cases, I've used as much as 200lbs per ac ft with no problems..
Have some hydrated lime on hand in case you get a large pH drop,. It adds calcium, has the power to add more negatively charged ions to lock up even more elements and sink it. You don't have to mix the hydrated lime in a slurry either

I checked the ph again this morning and it is back up to 9.0. I have ordered the Cutrine+ and will order some more alum. How long after the Cutrine+ treatment should I apply the alum? Also, do you think that adding 100 lbs./acre ft. would be what is needed since I have recently put in 60 lbs./acre ft. or should I add another 125-150 lbs./acre ft.?

I say 7 days but that depends on decomp rate, 3-5 may be sufficient.
I still feel you need to find the source of high pH, that's just too high for egg production, hatching success and proper gill function.

Also, do you think that adding 100 lbs./acre ft. would be what is needed since I recently added 60 lbs./acre ft. or should I add another 125-150 lbs./ acre ft.? The source of the high ph is a mystery to me. There is no cementious material in or at the edges of the pond that could leach in. The main watershed is a farm field that has a tile running into the pond. Do you think that could be a source of high ph?
There is a new generation of bluegills and LMB and we are even catching some small channel cat.

I would suspect that the farm field is your culprit for the high pH.

Do you know the landowner? Might be beneficial to ask him about their general schedule and components for their chemical applications.

If you aren't comfortable talking with him, then maybe you can find out the typical local treatment practices for whatever crop he has in each rotation.

Do you know if the soil in your area is acidic? Chemical amendments are used with certain herbicides to do a better job in conditions where soil pH is above or below 7.4 by much, but to take 7 range to 9+ would require a tremendous amount of product-way more than would be used in a normal farming operation.

FishinRod and Snipe- Thanks for the advice about checking into local conditions and with the neighboring farmer. I will get a water and soil test and talk with my neighbor.
Another thought I had as i was getting educated about this problem was that my water ph may be elevated because of the ongoing planktonic algae bloom. The Cutrine+ is supposed to be here early next week and I will do a series of ph checks after I treat the pond.