Hey guys! Been here a while and have learned SOO much. I can not hardly begin to thank everyone. I wish I would have found this place before we built the pond...then I wish I would have read more before we stocked the pond...so on and so forth...many have probably the same opinion.
We are at a crossroads. We have finally gotten the pond to hold water very well. When first built it would not hold anything...literally. I had a dirt mover build it instead of a pond builder. We did not stock correctly...I have a huge population of GSF...which I actually do not mind anymore...we have some BCP, LMB, and BG. I do feed. Water quality is good as per my last test. I have an AWFUL algae problem. It has gotten WAY ahead of me. I now have the tools and means to combat it, but it has gotten WAY to far ahead of me. This all being said I have been reading here and many university articles on the use of hydrated lime. I know most use it after the pond is drained and that is the only honest to goodness way to know all the undesirable is out, but draining is not going to be possible.
I have read many posts here and saw where rainman said at the least 400# per acre...I have read that on many of the university articles also. I read surface acre...is that true? My alkalinity is not super high but is in the safe range. PH is slightly acidic. Mid to high 6's. It is not in front of me at the moment. I know a slurry is the preferred method, but could it be drizzled out behind a boat idling or slightly over idle and allow the prop to mix it in? Or would mixing in buckets and pouring in be better? Will it kill the fish and plant life in the pond, that is the goal?? If I do this, I will get on top of the algae before it gets ahead of me. How long will the the pH take to drop back down? Can you put more in on top of it and keep the pH up or go higher the next day or so or would the spike already gone down to the point of having to start over? I can reach all parts of the pond. The pond is not super deep, maybe 8-10 feet at its deepest but has over half of it is in the 4-6 ft range. Surface is around an acre I believe.
I know these are a lot of questions, and the plan is not a perfect one by any means. I know I will still have fish eggs of GSF and BCP, but that doesn't bother me to much. My thought is, if I get the majority of the adults out, maybe I can actually get some BG started.
So, I did some more digging last night and found a lot of old posts about algae control using hydrated lime. I also walked my pond last night to get my current size at full pool because I have not done that and my google earth image is from 2014, this was the first time it had held any water. The app I used was very easy and free. If anyone is interested pm me and I'll let you know which one it is. All I did was start the app and walk the bank, then as soon as I got around it, stop the record and it figures the size. My pond at full pool with me walking around the bank is 1.33 acres, but I bet it is closer to 1.25 or so since I was not able to get right on the edge all the way around. Did it last night with a flashlight. lol You can also use point to point, but the walking worked very well.
After reading all the old posts multiple times last night, I'm thinking a ton of hydrated lime would probably get me close to clearing the entire pond. The majority of the pond is in the 4-6 foot range...with the deep end by the levee around 10. I'm hoping to get a better avg measurement today sometime.
I haven't gotten any responses to the first questions yet, but from my reading I see that many people have thrown the lime out around the pond for algae control...very sparingly mind you. So would it work to sprinkle behind a boat making rounds until your down and it churned up well? Will it be safe to restock within a few weeks after treatment? Or would be safe as soon as pH leveled out and was safe? I would check it of course. Even with a ton being added will it be done quickly...I read normally its settles within a few weeks.
I also read that after doing this you normally get a bloom...at least until phosphorus gets washed back into from a rain event or something similar. My goal is to start over the best that I can, then restock BG, RES, FHM...then next year LMB. I did that before but the pond was full of adult GSF. I honestly do not mind the GSF...and from reading will eventually get out done by the BG anyways. But I have to get the BG started. I also read where rainman said crappie were extremely fragile to pH swings. Maybe I could be rid of most if not all of them by doing this.
If you want to start over (kill everything in the pond) you can do it several ways. Hydrated lime is one way. If you decide to do that then drain the pond or pump out as much as possible - then apply the lime. By adding the highly active hydrated lime you quickly raise the ph. to the death level. By doing this you use less lime and as the pond refills it quickly becomes stockable.
Thanks ewest. There lies my biggest problem though. Really do not want to drain. I know that is the best way, but it has taken years to finally get the pond to full pool and it hold water. Can figuring the amount of lime for my BOW work? Trying to get my best option without draining and or pumping it down.
Being from Texas I understand the hesitancy to pump any precious water out of you pond. But, think of it this way. If you add enough lime to your pond at full pool to kill off all the fish then you have a pond full of un-inhabitable water. It may take a long time or even more money to return the pH back to the proper range. By pumping it down you save money on lime and whatever it would cost to get the pH back in balance. Then your pond would eventually fill back up with clean, fresh rain water. But, like I said, I understand water is precious in some parts of the country. So, you may be willing to incur these extra costs and time to not pump it down.
Well from my reading the hydrated lime does not last long...meaning much over a month. Its a quick swing, then settles quickly. I may be wrong, that is what I have gathered from my reading. Now ag lime on the other hand will stay and last having an effect over a long period of time, changing pH slowly with a max of like 8.4 I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
HalfAcre, thats exactly it. Its been such a struggle to get the pond to where it is, I hate to drain...I love the idea of draining and having fresh water and starting over the correct way...but if it turns off dry, I could be years before my current level is ever seen again.
Well wife says no go on the draining. It has just taken too long to fill and she is scared it would take years to get back. I have access to a large diesel pump used in gravel pits. I'm thinking on putting the foot in a 55 gal barrel out in the pond. The barrel will have large holes drilled in it to allow water to enter. Then from the top I will pour the hydrated lime into the barrel by boat. I would think with the size of this pump there will be plenty of suction to pull the lime through it. I will take hole saw bits to put 3 or so inch holes into the barrel so there is plenty of water entering. This will exchange alot of water in a hurry. Would you wait for a wind enough to carry it across the pond, or move around with the discharge? I was also thinking of weighting the discharge and starting with it on the bottom in the deepest water then moving towards the shallows. Maybe 1200#s in the deep end then the remaining 800# in the shallow. A ton may be all I can get right now...maybe a little more. Probably use the boat to also keep water churning up. I would expect from my reading the remaining fish will move out of the deep and into the shallow, retreating away from the high pH? Thanks again!
You will have to get the total water column to a ph of about 11+. No easy way to do this but yours may work. You do not want to get the stuff on you , in your eyes or breath it in !!!!!
Peach...I am not familiar with killing a pond, but I can not help myself to try and think of a good way to mix in your lime.
Do you have aeration? I don't recall.
I think the barrel approach may be a bit hard to control. The barrel would need to be stabilized very well, maybe a couple bags of cement in the bottom, now the barrel is heavy to handle. At least my imagination says that it would all be hard to control while keeping the nasty stuff out of your eyes and weezer.
How big is this pump?
Can it handle some trash like pebbles and such?
Could you place the lime in the pond in a shallow location (unbagged) and use the suction hose to pull pond water from that area and have the discharge hose moved around or at least taken to the far end? All the while someone is stirring the lime up so that it can be sucked up by the pump.
Maybe the pump can continue to operate in this fashion after all the lime is dissolved from the pile so that it can be circulated throughout the pond more evenly.
Just some things to ponder.
AND, make sure that the amount of lime is adequate for your total water mass or it could be in vane.
I use hydrated lime in the spray rig for spraying peach trees. Part of the dormant spray I use. Along with copper sulfate and dormant oil. Yeah, its bad stuff.
The pump is large...its on a trailer. The foot would be in the barrel, not moving. I'm thinking the suction will be such that as the lime was poured into the barrel it would mix as it goes through the pump. Like you said it may be hard to control. The discharge line could be moved around. That was my thought. This pump is used to lower water in large gravel pits. Think its a 4 cylinder but can't recall. I thought also after putting the lime in making circles with the boat...40hp aluminum crappie rig...and really churning stuff up.
I read that fish leave the area of high pH, so I thought if I could start in the deep in with the discharge on the bottom...then moving to the center, then the southern most shallow end...all the while having the discharge on the bottom...then stirring with the boat we would get it all.
I guess a lot is left up to chance here.
If it were just the fish and I could afford it, we would use rotenone, but I thought the hydrated lime would take care of the undesirable bucket fish, and the algae...kind of a reset.
peachgrower, have you considered having a professional come in and apply rotenone to the pond instead? I've done the seine, drain, and hydrated lime 5-6 times now, and it's much much easier to go eat lunch, and let professionals come in and handle it. Hydrated lime is nasty stuff.
Whatever method you choose, be prepared for fish disposal when the treatment is complete. You could easily have thousands of dead floating fish to deal with, and my experience has been to get them out of the pond the same day if possible. Critters of the night come from near and far once the smell gets around.
Last edited by FireIsHot; 05/02/1803:24 PM. Reason: sp
We have about got out of the peaches actually. Most orchards in this area got bit pretty hard. Probably half if not more. If you are a peach eater...get them early. I don't know about Texas and northern AR. I know there are a few in your area and east on 40 towards Conway. There are some in Tyler area also.
Firelshot, its a budget thing also. I honestly do not know anyone in this are that does pond work. Seems like you guys in Texas are blessed with them. I have some AG&F buddies but I don't know how much they can actually do for the public.
Verdict is still out on what I'm going to do. Weighing options. This started out as a way to get rid of the mass algae I have. Then in that research found the other uses for hydrated lime and all the old posts about it. Then got me to thinking about the problem I've had getting BG established and I thought maybe I could start over. I really hate to end what I have...but then your read the stories about BCP and GSF, and I think what it could be.
You know when you first embark on this journey you never realize all that is involved...unless of course you are well informed, which this site has done for me...just wished I found it 7 years ago. lol
peachgrower, I really wish you the best with this deal. Please keep us in the loop, and let us know what worked well, and what could have worked better.
I thought I had my ponds going very well, then the otters hit and wiped out my catfish I planned on eating for this year. Probably $200 plus worth of CC feed down the otter gullets, plus the cost of the fish, and time feeding them. At least eight were 3 to 7 pound albino CC.
The point is, you never know. You could start over, then some idiot could bucket stock your pond with GSF or whatever about two or three years down the road.
John, you make very good points. I seriously doubt anyone bucket stocks its...right by house, fenced, and in a hole...ALTHOUGH...my kids did. Thats how we got here. LOL
Firelshot, thanks for that. Will keep you guys in the loop.
Have been talking to Pat over the PM and he has really gotten me thinking about tilapia. Going to try to post a video and some pics of my algae. If tilapia will do what I have been reading in past posts that may be the way to go. Maybe they would take the pressure off the BG and I could get some more started. Have to find an Arkansas supplier though. Does rainman still sell them?? Did not see anything on his ebay page. I could spend the money I was going to spend on lime on them...then maybe spend the money to restock on bigger BG.
Peachgrower, if you can get some seven to eight inch bluegill, they will outspawn the GSF. I supplemented my initial stocking a few months later with 30 or so five to eight inch bluegill, and after nearly three years, I have lots of BG. Goal was BG, LMB,RES, and CC pond. I seem to have plenty of BG, and a few LMB. No sign of RES or CC.
A neighbor let me have the larger BG from his pond. Last summer, I got five, five to eight inch LMB from him.
I saw overtons had the larger ones...I may have to make a trip for those and some tilapia. 4.5hrs one way shouldn't be a problem. They guarantee for 8 hours.
I'll never buy BG again. There are too many local places to get them legally. Neighbor's ponds, local public lake, etc. It's legal to stock from public waters as long as all possession and size limits are observed. You just cannot legally return them once stocked. My non feed trained adult BG feed trained within weeks.
The guy I got BG and LMB from has stocked three ponds from legal catches on public waters; BG, LMB, RES, and BC. The only fish he bought was CC, because he wanted them in larger numbers than anyone could easily catch.
It's really a moot point for me, because all our local ponds are connected in some way to the White River, Lake Sequoyah, and Beaver Reservoir. Anything we have in our ponds could go either way, given a sufficient flooding event.
Go fish and stock your own pond from a neighbors or public water. Take an ice chest with a portable bubbler and you in business..... they might be mutts but that�s fine.
I agree completely. My problem is not enough time to do that. With church, two jobs, kids, and farm animals, my time is limited. I would like to get a good number of larger BG...but you are right. It would be easy to get some from the surrounding lakes or ponds. But with pond time limited, its hard. I could take my pick, Greeson, Millwood, Dierks, Gillham, Grannis, Degray...all within an hour from me. If I try tilapia, picking up some big BG from them while I was there would be the way though...imho.
Peach...the Hydrated lime is applied per acre foot of water, but I think you figured that out.....I do still handle Tilapia, and will be going through AR next week with a full load....I'd suggest researching just how to apply the Hydrated lime for it to be effective....The high pH only lasts a couple weeks to a month (as ewest said) even in stagnant water....draining is usually done to use less H lime, yet slogging around in the soupy silt makes me question the "savings" after 15 minutes in it!!!!
Plaus, unless you treat all the original pool area AFTER draining, many fish can possibly survive in the soupy silt....
Treating a full pool will hopefully be downwind of any human, and upwind of every scavenger in the county!!!
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