Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations fish hatchery said

a fish hatchery told me for my .5 acre pond i should put in 50 bass 100 b/g and 1000 fatheads and i should put them in at the same time. this guy has been doing this for 48 years i told him that most people told me the same thing except alot more b/g and to put the b/g and minnows in first so they spawn a couple times and he said that would cause an imbalance to many b/g what do you all think about his approach. he has alot of exp. and seems very smart on this subject.

Hosty - I know the fish farmer you talk about. It is frequently done his way in Ohio and is recommended by the DNR, OSU extension service and Soil and Water Cons Service offices. What usually happens with this stocking method in OH is the size of bgill tends to be larger during the early years. This type of stocking does work and is probably in OH more fool proof, although the bass may not grow quite a fast as the PBoss way. The PBoss way will produce more numerous smaller fish that feed rapidly growing bass. Both methods require keeping an eye on the populations so a balance is maintained. You control the population densities and relative sizes of fish with our management techniques.

Bill, what numbers do you suggest,and should i put them in seperate.

Hosty, I am also aware of the person you are talking about. Two years ago I stock my 1 acre pond the way he recomended and now it seems to have very few bluegill. He also sold me crappie and perch, this didn't help matters either. I tried putting fatheads in my pond but they only last about a week; so I just catch adult bluegill at the neighbors and transport too my pond.

D.Miller,how many and when did you stock?

Hotsy - The OH stocking method is designed to prevent over abundant bgill. Low bgill numbers as I said earlier typically result in smaller smaller bass due to less forage. Give us your goals for the fishery and I can provide my opnion of numbers to stock. Trophy bass?, large panfish?, or all around general fishing? .

Bill,my whole reason for this pond was to have the best bass fishing i can have,i know .5 acre isnt enough but was the best i could do.

I think your best bass fishing in a pond your size will come form stocking pellet raised LMB like Cecil has described earlier. Lets get him involved in how many per acre and how many and when bgill should be added. I prefer about 50 -60 in a half acre when fed pellets. I prefer to stock on the light side to minimize problems. Try searching some of the headings with the words: pellet largemouth. Maybe Cecil can tell us where his bass on pellets info is located.

I don't have much luck in doing searches on here as the site does not recognize me when I try to do a search. Hopefully you guys have better luck.

What do you need to know about pellet trained bass? They are readily available anymore if you get them above 4 or 5 inches as it is more economcial for a hatchery to feed them pellets than live feed.

I raise them in cages at first, and then flip the cages over when they reach 10 to 12 inches, and leave the cages in place for a while to get them to stay in the are for feeding. If you don't have any other predator fish you can plant them without the cages, but you will have to make an effort to throw feed out on a regular basis in one spot until you get a pattern going. I feed them at least once a day many times twice although last year they were more interested in feeding only in the evening. For a half acre pond I would only put in about 50 or 60 at a time.

You will get faster growth with bass you feed and you want to use high protein low carbohyrate feed. I am now using a salmon or steelhead diet from Nelson and Sons Silver Cup feeds in Utah. Aquamax and other Purina feeds are too high in carbs and cause fatty livers and lower survival in winter.

Do not feed bass in water under 55 F. and you will get about a pound or more gain in growth a year which is faster than natural fed bass. They will also hit artificals and will still feed on forage fish if given the chance.

If a small bass pond is your goal this is the way to go.

Cecil, there is nothing in pond yet i plan to put 300 b/g in april along with 1000 minnows then would i put the pellet trained bass in the following spring. if you would can you give me the numbers to stock and time frames,do my numbers sound right?

Bill,if i dont go with the pellet bass what numbers do you suggest for the bass, b/g and minnows.and when should i put them in?

Hosty, I stocked the following fish in mid April 2002; 125 bluegill,50 bass, 50 shellcrackers, 50 perch, 50 crappie, 25 channel, 1000 fatheads, 2 algea eaters.The bass semm to be skinny and the catfish semm to be doing good (1 1/2 lb).

Hosty - Cecil will have to come back and give advice on how many bgil to add with the pellet trained bass. He answered most of the other main items.

If you do not use pellet raised bass then it will depend on your pond's overall fertility, water clarity and if you feed bgill pellets or not. Even feeding bgill pellets increases generally pond fertility and reduces water clarity.

On an average non-fed pond then I would stock 30-40 bass per 1/2 acre. Keep an eye on them watch growth and add or "thin" bass as necessary. If it was my pond I would stock minnows this spring and in fall stock mid-size bgill (70-90,, 4"-6") and bass late summer or fall. Typically Fender has LMB fingerlings as early as late July to mid August. Call Fender Last of July and see if bass are ready yet. I know Fender well; I have even given "hatchery talks" at his place. If added late summer, the bass will get pretty large by November. I would add 60-90 bgill in 1/2 acre. I would decrease these numbers by abt 15%-20% if your water clarity is 3'-5'. As an alternative you could add 80-100 fingerling bgill 1"-2" with the minnows in spring (cheaper this way; check prices).

Bass will thrive on the heavy spawn of minnows till bgill spawn in June of 2005. If you use 30 bass they will be bigger after 2 yrs vs 40 bass that will be 1"-3" smaller after 2 yrs. If you have too many bgill after 2yrs you can easily thin them in 1/2 acre with traps and fishing. Be The Manager!

D.Miller, What kind of "algae eaters" did you stock? Also what type algae do they eat? I have a new pond and this spring I noticed green algae, not real bad but I would like to be rid of it the safest way possible. Have considered tilapia but there seems to be controversy over their presence.
Kinda scary using Cutrine or similar chemical. Don't want to hurt any fish.
Input from someone on the use of tilapia or some other "algae eater" would be helpful.

The "algae eating fish" are going to either be koi or white amur (grass carp). They are the only fishes Fender sells that are close to "algae eaters". Neither are very good at eating algae unless they are stocked in "crowded" conditons; then the water quality suffers.

Bill,money is a factor right now as i am a nursing student.if i put the minnows and b/g in this spring then bass late fall or following spring what numbers should i use i know bass 30 to 50 but b/g and minnows what numbers? if i go with strictly fingerlings cause there cheaper should my bass go in this fall or next spring after forage has been in for a year, i plan to try and feed b/g at some point.

Bill, just to let you know im pretty sure fender thinks im crazy,when i told him i needed more than 100 b/g didnt want any crappie, no green sunfish he said my friend who is giving you this info, i said i was a member of pond boss he said my friend ive been in this for 48 yrs and i think you should stay off the internet. he seems like a good ol boy,i havent met him yet only on the phone. i thought you might get a kick out of what he told me.

Bill, forgot to ask should i put some type of grass eater in this new pond?

Hosty - Tell Fender that you have been talking to me. He will say that he taught me everything I know(look for his smile). Also tell him that I have "gotten a little off the path" since I don't come to see him as often anymore.

Since you are on a low budget here is what I would do; buy about 3-4 pounds (300-500) of fathead minnows this spring. Provide them spawning structures as described here. Does he sell minnows now by the pound or each? They should be large sized breeders (2"-2.5") Also this spring, I would add the about 60-90 fingerling (1"-1.5") bgill unless he only has 2"-4" bgill. Bgill (1"-1.5") with fatheads should be 4"-6" by spring 2005. If he only has larger bgill then I would wait till fall to add about 60-90 of the 3"-5" bgill. Stock 2"-3" bass in late summer early fall 2004 so they eat and grow to decent size by spring 2005. Fatheads will be basically gone by bluegill spawn time and then bass will then feed on the 2005 bgill spawn. Watch and sample bgill in summers of 2005 and 2006 and make any needed adjustments (additions or subtractions) to fish populations. If you feed bgill pellets(esp. in 2006) you should have some 7"-9" bgill at end of 2006. Bass at end of 2005 should be 10"-13".

You can explain my theory to Fender if you want to. Interesting to see what he says.

I don't recommend grass eaters until you have a grass problem that is beyond normal manual removal efforts (8-12hrs per yr) for a 0.5 ac pond. Most of the early grass growth can be manually removed from a small pond like yours with a "Lake Rake" or "Beechcomber Rake". Leave 20% weed cover for the fish and remove the remaining weeds. When weeds growth gets too much to remove by hand add enough "grass eaters" (usu 1-3) to eat about 30%-40% of the weeds, then you remove about 30% and leave remaining weeds for fish habitat and nutrient consumption.

Dr. Duck, I stocked 4 grass carp in my 1 acre pond, and Bill is correct they don't eat much algae if at all. Bill you mentioned in a previos reply that you gave a talk at Fenders, do you do this type of thing often and/or do you have a schedule. Bill I have been doing some reading on the net under OSU Pond Fact Sheets (ohioline.osu.edu); I went to a seminar put on by Bill Lynch and wanted to know if you have a schedule or a contact phone no. to get in contact with him. Hosty if and when you go see Fender make sure you have a little extra time to talk. I had a problem with fish shortly after I stocked them and lost a few in the process. After talking to my local soil and water dept, they refered me back to him and he gladly replaced the fish. Fender was very helpful before I found Pond Boss.

dm - Reach Bill Lynch at [email protected] In addition to OSU Extension Program Specialist he He runs Mill Creek Perch Farm.

Bill, thanks for the help, getting fish in the next couple weeks. i will tell fender you say hello.Bill how important is a diffuser in my new pond will it be ok if its a couple years down the road i need electricity ran to pond.2006 my wife and i will be graduated nurses.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THANKS HOSTY.

I would prefer bottom aeration by next year. Do it yourself aerators from me can be done for about $360-380 w/out tax&shipping. However you will not do irreparable damage if you do not get it in till 2006. The muck build up will still be fairly thin by then 3"-4". Fish biomass will increase and improve somewhat after you install bottom aeration.

How far is the pond form a power source now?

bill,200 yards from our barn.bill when will i need to start calling bass and what size do you call?

600 feet distance is a long way to push air but it can be done. Trenching power to pond will also work okay.

If you only stock 30-40 fingerling bass (fall 04 or April 05), you should not need to CULL or remove any bass until their first spawn is 6"-10" long (Spring 07 or 08). Original stock of bass should spawn the 2nd May (2006) in your pond. The size of bass to cull is based on your goals for the pond. Some cull small, some cull medium , some cull largest bass; it depends on what kind of fishery you are trying to produce.

You may notice in summer 2005 & 2006 that the bgill are not producing lots of young. Then you will need to either thin a few bass or add more adult bgill to increase numbers of small bgill. Lots of factors can influence the numbers of small bgill that are present. You may need to build/buy a trap to sample the numbers of small bgill. Be The Manager.

If you have good amounts of cover and rocky areas, I would also buy from Fender some of his crayfish (50-60) and add them with the minnows. I would also add some golden shiners (30-80) with the fathead minnows. Shiners will provide larger forage items for bass and shiners will last a little longer than the fatheads once the bass are added. Fender does not sell g.shiners. You might find some g. shiners at a bait shop somewhere near you. Jones Fish Hatchery in Cincy sells shiners.