Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Opinions wanted

Sean,

The experts are going to have to answer that, but my observations says NO. We continue to catch fish at will. We culled over 100 LMB this season so far and I see another 200 coming out before the end of the year.

The RW of our mature LMB is around 110% Our RW of the younger LMB was around 93% but after the culling we have been doing, they are now around 101% just a few months after the spawning season.

Fish continue to strike at both live and artificial baits. The new record is over seven pounds and was a blast to catch. 115% RW according to the charts.

Sean, I'm no expert -- heck, I don't even play one on TV -- but your logic seems pretty solid.

I think there's a place for hook stocking, so long as it is focused on fish that will never grow big -- males and skinny bass. They may be aggressive, but they really aren't what you want in your pond. Sometimes getting rid of them is enough to balance things, depending on the fishery.

When that's not enough, I'd go with electroharvest to avoid taking out the most aggressive genetics.

I found a local source for Purina Game Fish food. No one local has Aquamax. I'll start hand feeding as often as possible on a schedule until we get a feeder. If the little buggers take to it, I'll probably see about ordering the Optimum Bluegill stuff you guys talk about.

Also, I made this tonight and have materials for one or two more like it.
Thoughts?
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Looks good! Just be sure to punch a few holes at the top of the blue tubes so the air can escape when it sinks. Otherwise the trapped air might float it...

Sean, Ewest gave me a copy of a study of that being done. The fish that seldom bit had offspring with the same traits. Conversely, the fish that were easier to catch had offspring that were easy.

Ryan,
My local farm store only stocks the Gamefish Chow but they can order any of the Aquamax foods and receive them in 1-2 weeks. You may ask your supplier if they can order it for you.

If harvesting for correcting an overpopulation, you are trying to cull the smaller, starving fish. It is pure hunger causing aggressive biting, not genetics. If you had quality genetics in the pond before an over population, those same genetics will be there after the cull....

That is exactly right. Also why it is often suggested that you use shock boat to remove fish as that is not limited to catchable fish.


From a prior thread - see chart from study

Keep in mind that over time the death of LMB (by catch and keep or death due to catch stress)all target the fish that are apt to bite (catchable fish). See other threads on the heritability of catchability.I would suggest that you keep records and harvest fish (the skinny or oversized class)by electroshock as it does not target catchable fish.

More on catchability - the chart below shows a 50% reduction in catch rates over 3 generations.




THE CUTTING EDGE � SCIENCE REVIEW
By Eric West


Aggressiveness - it should have been obvious � it�s in the genes

Catchability, how likely a fish is to bite a lure, is a problem encountered by pondmiesters and is often referred to as aggressive fish vs. non-aggressive fish. It has been debated on several occasions on the Pond Boss Forum and articles have appeared in Pond Boss magazine concerning possible management options for fish that don�t bite well. So what are we missing that is so obvious about this aggressiveness trait?


The new study is titled Recreational Fishing Selectively Captures Individuals with the Highest Fitness Potential by David A. H. Suttera, Cory D. Suskib, David P. Philippb, Thomas Klefotha, David H. Wahlb, Petra Kerstene, Steven J. Cooke, and Robert Arlinghaus , in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. doi: 10.1073/pnas.1212536109 , October 26, 2012. This study, using the same genetic line as the first study noted above, found that the trait �catchability or vulnerability to angling� positively correlates with 1) aggression, 2) intensity of parental care, and 3) reproductive fitness.

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Electrofishing has been the preferred method for collecting non-biased samples of largemouth bass for genetics studies over the last three decades and while capture rates may differ among seasons and throughout the day, no bias in the collection of either subspecies has been observed in numerous studies. Additionally, one study reported that largemouth bass collected using rotenone and electofishing from impoundments exhibited no differences in genotype frequencies.




Look for threads here on catchability. The info is here as is the research.



Here are a couple with links

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=274175&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post200220

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post260622

Feeding habits. Finding good ambush places, figuring out where the forage fish hang out, etc.

Eric,

Trying to rap my head around this a bit tighter. I catch, evaluate and then either keep or release my LMB. I use a set of rules. Bass under 15 inches must be over 100% and look real heathy or they are pulled. Bass from 15-19 inches must be over 105% and be healthy or they are pulled. (I do not use this method right after the spawn). Larger bass seem to be in the 110% range and as long as they are healthy, they stay. I will on occasion pull a larger bass due to condition.

I have not seen any degradation in the catchability of my fish over the last few years, in fact, my catch rates are up a little and the RWs are increasing slightly.

Is there a possibility that my plan is doom to fail? Is a shock boat mandatory to keep the big pond "catchable"? I like having the diversity we have in our pond, but catching fish is a must.

Brian, (Highflyer), I know you have some Lone Star legacy (formaly Camelot Bell's) in your pond. Is that correct? And what others if any are in your lmb genes? Just curious ?

Thanks
Tracy

Ryan your structure looks good. Be sure to weight it good enough to get it to sink. Also be aware that floatie things tend to turn over and not sink in the manner you wish. Keep that in mind as you weight it.

I personally would tie at least four concrete blocks to the [/u]underside[u] of the bottom pallet. Why? One to help it sink. Two to help make sure the bottom stays the bottom, Three, to set it up off the bottom to make the structure more useful where fish can swim under. Remember, anything on the bottom will tend to sink in at least a ways and silt up around it. Small stuff on the bottom tends to just get covered up. The blocks will help keep it up off the bottom. Heavy wire or giant zip ties like the ones used to secure heating ducting work well. Giant zip ties can be bought at heating/airco commercial places and are surprisingly cheap if bought by the bag full.

Eventually the wood will water log and sink. But not for a year or two.

I actually have 4 concrete blocks between the two pallets there, and everything is zip / rope tied together. I wanted the bottom pallet so that the weight of the concrete could disperse a bit over the area, and hopefully there should be space between the two pallets.

As far as the blue conduit is concerned, I took someones suggestion and drilled holes in the top of the arc to let the bubbles out. I also took another piece of advice I read on here and sprayed everything with fish fertilizer liquid and let it dry. Hopefully algae will take to it pretty quick.

I have a platform rigged up in the boat, so I just lift the 4x4's and the structure slides off the front. This one sank like a stone.

Sounds like you did a great job, Ryan. Best of luck with your new honey-hole!

I have a spare wooden pallet that is headed for the pond. Will try to incorporate some of your ideas.

I wonder if this problem can be solved, at least for a while, by adding different genes. For example, Am Sportsfish has so-called "Gorilla" northern LMB that are supposed to be extremely aggressive & catchable, even for northerns.

Granted, if your goal is a 15 lb bass, you may not want these genetics. And you'd probably have to stock some fairly good sized fish, otherwise they'd just be an expensive snack for your existing LMB.

I've even heard that northern LMB help make existing Florida LMB more aggressive, since otherwise the northerns tend to be first to dinner. However, not sure this is true; at least, I've not seen any studies on it.

Tracy,

We have northern, Fla, and LSL genes in our pond. Clearly there are F1 and further integration going on.

RWs continue to climb.