Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Fish ID

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=156829

Excerpt via Bob Lusk:

"Funny this topic has arisen. I was recently emailed this question from Dr. Robert Fulton, of Monroe, NC. He and I have established a friendship over the last few years and he tosses questions at me from time to time (and I do the same with him). Here's the answer I gave him. It will appear in Ask the Boss in July-August.

Geez, (He's known as the "River Geezer")
Well...I'll tell you. This is my 30th year as a professional fisheries biologist in the private sector. I have never seen, or otherwise been able to prove, that herons bring viable fish eggs to ponds to create a population of fish. I've not found any definitive studies which prove or disprove the theory, either. And, I've looked. I've wanted to simply believe this myth and go on with life, but my mind won't allow it. Too many times people make this statement to me as the truth. And since I'm in the bidness of knowing such things, I decided to put it to rest years ago, in my twenties. Still, though, I think about such things.
But, after years of wading in ponds, building them, draining them and studying things as fish eggs, fish behavior and fish recipes, I have grown to appreciate the fact that fish eggs are delicate, can't stand dry air, need oxygenated water, will suffocate in mud or silt and often need to be surrounded by siblings to enhance odds of survival. I can't believe that a bird can walk on a fish's nest, eggs stick to the leg, stay stuck to the leg as the bird flies, don't dry out and die along the flight, then the bird lands, the eggs unstick, find a hard substrate to continue their incubation and then hatch and create a population of fish. I would say the odds of all these things happening in favor of a fish are astronomical. If I were that egg, I would ask the bird to stop in and buy a lottery ticket as they fly over the local convenience store.
Do fish make their way into unstocked waters? Yep, they do. How? Beats me. I've seen sunfish in cattle hoofprints after a summer rain...500 yards from the nearest pond or stream...upstream or downstream. I have, once in my life, watched a great blue heron snatch a catfish fingerling out of one of my hatchery ponds, fly off with it, only to watch the six inch whiskerfish wriggle free and be dropped into the pond next to its home pond. I have seen herons catch my bluegill at Lusk Lodge, 2, some as long as 8 inches, take off and drop the fish in the dirt, yards from the pond, then circle, come back, land and eat it. I watch that process almost every week, with a cup of coffee from the patio as the fish feeder tosses its rich nuggets to our fish.
The only theory I truly believe, because I have seen it over and over, is that fish move when water moves...and usually the smallest fish take advantage of that opportunity. I've watched them move upstream from one pond to the next. What about ponds that sit alone in the watershed? Good thought, there, too. But, if that pond ever overflows, the water must go somewhere to another watershed...and when that happens, all a tiny, one inch sunfish needs is an inch of water depth and they will go...fast. Personally, I believe fish transfer themselves under their own power to stock a pond by swimming upstream in flowing water...unless someone's neighbor does them a "favor" and transfers a few fish into a new pond.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it...unlike fish eggs to bird legs."

Dave Davidson, in the same thread:

"I posted this a couple of years ago. I bought a duck at the local flea market, euthanized it, and cut a leg off. I found a BG nest and captured some eggs (That was tough. Actually getting them in my hand wasn't easy.) I did just about everything but epoxying and velcroing to get those eggs to stick to the ducks foot. Never happened. That was a waste. Even George wouldn't take the feathers to build flies.

Yeah, I know. I have too much time on my hands. Of course, I didn't stay with it for geologic time.

And, those who know me will tell you that never, under any circumstances, would I break the law by harming a GBH for my weird tests.
"

esshup, I think you may have hit the nail on the head, Thanks I would have not thought of that.

Tracy

I strongly feel that the impossible (or seemingly impossible) could happen but we can't say it does till it is observed, measured, and hopefully able to be repeated (scientific method) So I would ask Urmetz who has access to flat fields that periodically have puddles with fish in them to find an area that usually floods and put some stakes around it and cover it in clear plastic about 8-12" off the water so there is no possible way for eggs to get to it from above. Then when we have another big rain event and if fish show up in that puddle then we at least know that the fish came by land attached to a raccoon's legs who stopped under the tarp to stay dry, or it came through overflowing water that flowed over land into the puddle.

This or a similar experiment would help us understand this. I would love to know how fish get into these places too. If the Texas folk who have drought with dry puddles, then when the puddles come find them full of gams care to do this experiment that would help us too. It would seem if all the puddles in the texas ares somehow populate with gams then they are coming down with the rain, or with birds who land in the puddles or drop eggs in the puddles (unlikely) or from water washing the fish (or eggs) in from somewhere else.

To extend the experiment, you could even have several puddles in one area and completely block access on all sides to one puddle so no overflow water can get in, and allow ground based access to the other puddles.

Something like that would teach us all alot!

I stock fish for a living...had several yellow perch spawn in my tanks and where I delivered. The egg ribbons were not sticky at all. I also said the "almost" certain cause...I also said I'd never heard of any credible report...not that it's impossible Fish can swim miles, and I deliver to Ohio many times a year. The flat lands I know of have drainage ditches with fish laden, year round water in them at least every mile.

Duckweed and watermeal are most often spread by birds, but plants don't dry out fast and are held to a hand or bird leg by water tension, not adhesion. Birds are the primary planter of DW and WM, just like flying insects cross-pollenate plants.

Don't forget bait buckets. Back in the day older bait buckets would be dropped along side your boat with a little grill of holes on the trap door to let fresh water and O2 in there for your hapless victims. Not reason fry couldn't get through those holes and make it to the next BOW the fisherman heads out to.

Surprisingly still in use. Seems like a heck of a way to spread nasty things from lake to lake!
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