Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction New Ohio member pumpkinseed question

Thanks Bill C for such thoughtful questions. This is just more evidence of why you received the Willis Legacy Award.

In my way of thinking, my cool water pond here in Colorado might be better suited for PS and YP rather than the YP and LMB with only a few BG and GSF that are presently in it. I'll be following this thread with interest; depending on what we learn about combining YP and PS with SMB, I may be ready to renovate.

PS are a favorite of mine. However, I don't know where I'll find any for sale way out west.

An information note about channel catfish is once they are mature the males typically have wider more bulky heads than the females. Note the wide head of the CC in esshup's picture above.

Bob, yes I did. Read what I wrote above the pics.

Kris, here's another picture of a CC. See how the anal fin is rounded? Take a look at yours the next time you catch one. That dead one in the pic that you texted does look like it has a rounded anal fin to me, and I think I counted 34 rays in it.

As you can see, this one is dark in color too, without spots.
This one is either 27 or 29 inches and around 16 pounds. (too lazy to go look up the info.)

Bill, according to the head shape, I believe this one is a female.

Here's 2 pictures from Kris C5.

Dead Catfish:


PS from Sunday:

I'm gonna go with the experts on here and say my catfish are channel cats they know way more than I do. I will get more pics of the pumpkinseeds to try and get posted and thanks for the comments and your time.

PS and BG often cross and the cross tends to be larger than the PS parent. If BG and PS numbers are near equal in the pond a few crosses are to be expected.

PS X BG Pumpkinseed – Bluegill cross Lyons WiscFish









PS X GSF Pumpkinseed – Green Sunfish cross Lyons WiscFish

I'm not expert at BG or SF identification, but I was looking at that first PS picture and I didn't see the colored sliver on the eartab. I wondered if this maybe was a hybrid PS of some type...

I see no orange on the opercular flap. If that is correct, then I will vote the fish in the photo is a pumpkingill (BGPS). Both male and female PS have the orange/red spot. BGPS do not.

My bad Scott. Like with older playboy magazines I go to the pics first.

Here are the photos - sorry had a few issues uploading to Photobucket, apparently I'm over my free data limit of 2 GB. Amazing PS there, well done! We'd love to see some tape measurement photos sometime. Can't tell on the catfish species photo, I've caught a lot of mature CC that are dark blue like that, anal fin should be slightly curved where a BC should be straight. Thanks for sharing your photos and welcome to Pond Boss!

Oops a little late on the draw. My guess is BPS hybrid also. Helps explain the larger sizes...I'm not a lepomis hybrid expert, however. Beautiful fish regardless, and in great condition.

Yep, with the bigger pic I don't see any color on the flap. Pumpkingill (BGPS) in my opinion.

Either way, it's a dang pretty fish! I have a mix of about 50/50 BG and PS in my pond. I sure hope I get some Pumpkingills!!

Where there's PGBS there's PS brood stock. Can't wait to see pics of some of the really big ones. IMO there is a good chance there are some huge PS in that pond!

Kris - did you ever tell us where you got your pumpkinseeds and catfish?
Is your water clear enough to see where the pumpkinseeds spawn compared to where the BG spawn? Spawning together as in adjacent nests often leads to hybrid combinations.

Bill,

You've touched on a subject I've wondered about. From what I've read, PS spawn slightly sooner at cooler temperatures than BG. If that is true, that would put the PS taking the best nest sites first. Is it possible, that in years where water temps rise fairly rapidly, they end up with an overlap and actually share spawning beds as the BG move in during the PS spawn?

If they spawn like BG there are probably at least some on beds nearly all summer long. At least in my pond there is an initial large spawn, but as long as conditions are favorable, I think I could find at least some on beds the rest of the season.

If PS act similar, would be easy for some individuals to overlap spawns.

I'm not positive but, as far as I've been able to find in literature, PS only spawn the one time a year; in the spring.

In the local lake the PS spawn about the same time as BG, but they do not nest in colonies, each PS has a nest sway from other fish by itself. The PS nests are 2x-3x as big as a BG nest too.

Will be adding info here.

Form EFish

Pumpkinseed, Lepomis gibbosus



Physical Description:
· Deep, very compressed body
· Black opercular spot with an orange mark on the margin
· Small, terminal mouth
· Large eye
· Tail fin lobes rounded
· Pectoral fin long and pointed
· Blue, yellow or orange spotted body
· Yellow-orange belly

Similar species:
· Warmouth (Lepomis gulosus)
· Redbreast sunfish (Lepomis auritus)

Mean body size:
· Adults are 70-160 mm total length

Habitat:
· Vegetated pools in creeks and rivers, and ponds and reservoirs

Distribution in VA:
· Atlantic slope drainages of Virginia
· Introduced to the New, Pee Dee, and Tennessee drainages

Food Habits:
· Insects, snails, clams, fish, and plants

Reproductive Habits:
· Mature in 1-3 years
· Spawning occurs early May to August
· Nest in colonies on sand and small gravel in open shallow areas
· Fecundity is 1,034-2,436 eggs per female per year
· Hybridizes with many other sunfish species

Population Status, Economic, or Ecological Importance:
· Abundant in Virginia

References:

Jenkins, R.E and N.M. Burkhead. 1993. Freshwater Fishes of Virginia. American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, Maryland.

Thanks! That explains why I saw about a 5 inch SF guarding a huge 2 foot diameter nest last year. Visibility was not good enough to identify the SF. Sounds like it was probably a PS. Late summer I caught lots of fingerling SF in my minnow traps about 1 inch long that looked pretty much like BG fingerlings except they lacked the distinct vertical stripes I'm used to seeing on tiny BG. Probably PS fingerlings.

As always, thanks for the info Ewest!

Bill working on more. I will look at Bluegills: Biology and Behavior by Spotte the preeminent text on BG tonight. It has a lot of info on PS which the author developed in his research in northern BG ponds. He references some large overlaps in BG and PS life history and behavior.

Hey Bill, I've never seen the ps spawning with the bg. Most of the time I catch them around the fish attractors and my kids usually net the little ones around the cat tails. I got the ps from a farmer that bought a 3 acre pond so he could fill it in and farm the ground. He gave me two days to catch what I could. So the ps we caught were very pretty and we decided to put them in our pond, everything else went to the freezer. Where he got them from I don't know. Most of them were small that we caught from there but had very bright color to them. For reasons that I don't know they seem to be doing great in my pond. My water is pretty clear around the edge when the bg spawn so I'll keep better watch this year. I'm trying to answer everything I can for everyone if I miss a question just hit me up again and I'll do my best. And you are more than welcome to come check my pond out sometime if anyone wants some ps I'm sure we can get you some.

Interesting history of the PS in your pond. Keep us updated as the pond progresses. Note this summer if you catch some that are even more colorful than that one in your picture which may be a hybrid. the Pure stain ones should be similar to those you originally stocked. Normal pure strain PS will have a red spot on the margin of the "ear tab" as in the fish of these links. Watch for it in your fish.
http://fishndave.blogspot.com/2013/07/nesting-pumpkinseed-sunfish.html
http://thenativetank.tumblr.com/post/117114965784/cool-critters-pumpkinseed-sunfish-lepomis
http://www.roughfish.com/content/sunfish-pumpkinseed-clint-texas
http://www.bigstockphoto.com/image-1734121/stock-photo-pumpkinseed-sunfish

Kris,

With the info provided on the source of the fish and the info reported on their size, IMO you may have stocked hybrids. Have you ever seen the red/orange spot on the opercular flap on any of the fish caught from your pond?

Probable BG x PS hybrids, courtesy of Jim Gronaw over at BBG.